Isn't it time to close pubs and beauty salons

[Eng123]

We are seeing a spike if we closed these activities down for 1 month then its likely schools can remain open. It would seem an obvious choice. I know these businesses circulate money in the economy but on balance their closure would protect a wider range of activities key to the economy.

Why do you assume I'm not working class because I'm office based?
I'm so thankful for the furlough scheme. Dare I say it - I've worked throughout the lockdown! Though I didn't use furlough personally I think we all benefited from it. If pubs/salons were to close I'd like to see a furlough scheme extended for the workers. I guess we will wait and see. I still think there are parts of society that need prioritising, even though it's a hard decision.
I didn't assume you weren't working class but if that's your opinion I agree to some extent but I very much doubt the government will pay furloughed again .

You can't make decisions like this with no evidence. These are people's livelihoods ffs.
Agreed
I've said it since day 1 we need a balance we need a plan .
Close schools , close pubs etc
Unless the government is going to pay people's wage indefinitely it's a none starter .
I don't have the answer I'm afraid but until we can all be tested or a vaccine it will constantly be up for discussion what is right or not .

I live in Bolton. They've shut the pubs. My experience has been by and large they're not following the guidelines. Tables in pubs are not spread 2 meters apart, staff are not wearing masks, many people are gathering in large groups and not distancing, I've not been asked for details for track and trace in pubs, I have in restraunts but it's been voluntary. I'm self isolating atm as a colleague has tested positive. I know quite a few people who have tested positive in the last week and lots that are having to isolate.

I've been so bemused throughout all of this that people have actual physical contact through hairdressers and beauticians,sent their kids to summer camps where they played sports, gone on staycations, that shops eased off covid measures (some- taking away hand sanitizer from door, allowingmore people in), that people went into chip shops and cafes and restaurants and now the kids are back in school and weddings are going ahead and kids are having birthday parties and communion and yet it always comes down to pubs. That if pubs close all covid cases will disappear. (By the way all the above are part of life and I find it sad to use them as examples because everyone should be able to do these things. Hate covid)

OP, you have a future with this government. Are you looking for a job in politics? That's a lovely scatter-gun approach. No data to suggest the increase is from either pubs or beauticians.
If you could also do a U-turn in two weeks and keep telling hospitality and beauty workers to get back to work (while their industries are closed) I really think you could formulate policy.

@DianaT1969
I'll apply to Dom!
Trouble is how do you proceed when you don't have hard data? You have to form a hypothesis and test it. It's just feeling the way.

I went to get my eyebrows done. She wore a proper mask, I did. She also wore a visor, uv light.
She gelled upon seeing me, and I gelled. Same on leaving.
How on earth is this comparable to going to a pub???

@Weedsnseeds1

Well, logically, we should shit all the food factories. There are currently around 50 manufacturing or distribution sites with outbreaks. Including one in a chicken factory in Scotland where 157 staff and 20 close contacts have tested positive, 75 people positive in a meat factory in Norfolk. The site I am at this week has had 30 positive - that's the reality when you have 700 people working in close proximity for 12 hour shifts. The food industry keeps going, because God forbid somebody might get substituted burgers for sausages in their on line delivery. So, let's do the responsible thing and close the lot. You're going to be hungry OP, but it's for the greater good...

This

@Eng123 - so you want to test your hypothesis by closing 2 sectors of industry and losing people their jobs? Why did you choose pubs and beauticians? Why not coffee shops and gyms? Clothes shops and restaurants? The London underground and food factories?

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust

[quote Eng123]@DianaT1969
I'll apply to Dom!
Trouble is how do you proceed when you don't have hard data? You have to form a hypothesis and test it. It's just feeling the way.[/quote]
So we’ll test your hypothesis shall we? You think beauty salons are an issue (despite them being heavily regulated) so let’s just put everyone out of a job while we see if you’re right or not, shall we?
My hypothesis, based on the number of chilled food factories that have had significant outbreaks (well reported), is that we should close them. Why not test my hypothesis? Mine is at least based on some actual facts.

Pubs create the “perfect storm” for spreading coronavirus and carry more risk than planes, experts have found.
Indoor pub drinkers are potentially subjecting themselves to a build-up of infected droplets caused by poor ventilation and people having continuous conversations, often speaking more loudly to be heard over the din of a noisy bar.

I'd be surprised if a lot of spread isnt happening in pubs. It may not be as some as closing them. If the main driver of spread is young people getting together and socialising then it's going to take more than shutting pubs to stop that.

@Eng123

I agree with you, alcohol and SD don't mix and as we go into winter, drinking inside will be the norm.
IF CV infections take off then we are heading toward another full scale lockdown, which will be far worse than limiting (not closing down) pubs.

As for waiting until there is "evidence" well, by the time we have that, its all too late.
We know how respiratory viruses spread, so we can be proactive.

As to the costs, HS2, Tridents replacement, billions wasted on brexit...... always seems to be money for trivia.

Would be surprised if salons were linked to any sort of spike. When I go to mine, I'm the only person there and plenty of precautions are taken. Pubs, dunno. I've only been to the type where you sit outside with table service and plenty of space, and that doesn't seem too risky. I imagine it's a different story late night in city centres.

The OP probably doesn’t use pubs or beauty salons so is quite happy to insist on the closure of these businesses as it won’t affect her personally

Well it looks like controlls are on the way now anyway. There are some areas of society that will be riskier than others and choices will have to be made.

@Eng123

Well it looks like controlls are on the way now anyway. There are some areas of society that will be riskier than others and choices will have to be made.

International travel is considered high-risk yet by your own admission you've been abroad twice recently.

"Choices will have to be made"... so long as they don't interfere with YOUR priorites eh?

@Eng123

Well it looks like controlls are on the way now anyway. There are some areas of society that will be riskier than others and choices will have to be made.

Well thankfully the choices won’t be made off the back of you having a feeling that beauty salons are high risk, despite having no idea what control they’re operating under and whether any cases have been traced back to them.

Well it looks like controlls are on the way now anyway. There are some areas of society that will be riskier than others and choices will have to be made.

I live in an area where we already have stricter controls than those that are about to be introduced. Pubs, restaurants. hairdressers and some beauty services have remained open and cases have decreased.

My ward has lots of pubs, restaurants and beauty salons and they're all doing a booming trade yet our figures are so low they aren't statistically relevant.

Well it looks like controlls are on the way now anyway. There are some areas of society that will be riskier than others and choices will have to be made.

You are so desperate to be proved right you don't give a toss about people working in those industry's.

I'm not looking for vindication. I'm interested in the view points of others. Travel is a risk factor that needs to be considered, it generally the means of travel that represents the highest risk factor, rates of infection aside. I think we will see greater curtailment of travel shortly and possibly entertainment. If testing can be increased it will help a little but it's a vaccine that will change the situation most. Until a vaccine is developed we are just down to using social control measures, as clumsy as they are.

There was a report on my town that 2 lads who tested positive for Covid after returning from a holiday in Greece, who subsequently spent Saturday night in a local bar. So with that level of selfishness going on of course pubs are going to end up closing.

I think we really need to be very careful what we are asking for here as to me, we seem to be sleep walking into more infringements on our civil liberties and into an authoritarian state for a disease that for most is survivable. Some of us seem to be all too wiling to accept someone saying this and that thing is not necessary and should be stopped or closed down because it doesn’t affects them personally; the government have the power to make it law with enforcement pretty much overnight little to no scrutiny under emergency legislation. We are already being told where to go, what to wear and being manipulated into how we think and feel all under a guise of a pandemic which is not even as lethal as other pandemics in human history. This is truly frightening and I can’t help but draw parallels with another period in our history.

I will leave Martin Niemöller’s poem here as reminder of the potential consequences:

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me

What if there is never a vaccine? Are you just going to stay at home and order everything online.