Isn't it time to close pubs and beauty salons

[Eng123]

We are seeing a spike if we closed these activities down for 1 month then its likely schools can remain open. It would seem an obvious choice. I know these businesses circulate money in the economy but on balance their closure would protect a wider range of activities key to the economy.

I disagree. Cases are going up because we are doing more testing. It’s under 30’s are the biggest group testing positive, few of those are getting seriously ill.

Unlike at the beginning when only the seriously ill were tested. We can keep schools open, pubs open and nail bars etc open, if we socially distance and observe sensible hygiene. If that doesn’t work, we will need a curfew on 18-30 year olds.

Absolutely not, NO.

I didn't catch it in a salon or pub. Not been in either. However I did catch it from somewhere in the last couple of weeks despite wearing a mask and being scrupulous with hands etc.

No. The problem is with people being less careful with social distancing and proper handwashing. And I know I'm stating the obvious.

I've been to the hairdresser and it was all masks, visors, lots of cleaning and temperature taken on arrival. There weren't many customers even though it was Saturday and only a few days after they reopened. (It's normally buzzing at the weekend)

Were mobile hairdressers and beauty therapists operating before official reopening? SM made it sound like football players and celebrities were getting haircuts in their spacious gardens and homes but that was rumour (I think)

Not been in a pub but I've walked past my locals and people seemed happily drinking outdoors which seemed harmless to me. I don't know what bars are like on a Friday/Saturday night but I think the business owners know that the general public will be quick to blame them if things go wrong so will obey the law. Considering that alcohol is available in restaurants too I think that restaurants are not viewed as suspiciously as pubs are

Oh for gods sake you can't hide from this virus ... closing things down are people livelihoods what do you do keep locking down ? No one cares anymore they are willing to take the risk including the vulnerable ones

No. I caught the virus before these places reopened, probably in the supermarket. People need to be more careful with SD, but if the virus is now endemic we can't hide and hope it goes away.

Extract from BBC current reporting on statement in the Commons this afternoon:

" Mr Hancock told the House of Commons: "Unfortunately, after improving for several weeks, we've seen a very significant rise in cases in Bolton.

"The rise in cases in Bolton is partly due to socialising by people in their 20s and 30s. We know this from contact tracing.

"And through our contact tracing system we've identified a number of pubs at which the virus has spread significantly."

The new measures, which come into force immediately, include:

	• All hospitality for food and drink (restaurants, cafes, bars and pubs) are now restricted to takeaway only

• Late night restriction of operating hours, meaning all venues, including takeaways, will be required to close from 22:00 to 05:00

	• A ban on mixing outside households in public outdoor settings, which will be enforceable by law

Leader of Bolton Council, Cllr David Greenhalgh, said: "This is not something we want to do, but it is clear the virus is currently moving round the borough uncontrolled and so we need to halt the transmission rate." "

Fuck me, people won't be happy until everybody except those can can do their naice white-collar jobs from home are in penury.

@MaxNormal

Fuck me, people won't be happy until everybody except those can can do their naice white-collar jobs from home are in penury.

It will be interesting to see the thoughts of these white-collar workers when they are being taxed to high heaven to pay for this shit show. It will be ok though because they've all made savings from not having to pay to travel to the office.

We work in white collar jobs that we can do from home but that doesn’t mean we have no empathy for those who don’t, or that we don’t recognise the need for £billion industries like hospitality to continue operating.

Nope

I think we need to close hospitals.
They are full of sick people

@MaxNormal

Fuck me, people won't be happy until everybody except those can can do their naice white-collar jobs from home are in penury.

Oh, but they still need the guy from Ocado to deliver their groceries

Oh fuck off. Cases are meaningless - even discounting the huge numbers of false positives you get with testing, hospitalisations and deaths are on the floor. Some people won't be happy till there's no fucking economy left. But then I'm sure the same people will still be standing in line (metaphorically) for their unemployment cheque moronically bleating "but at least we're all safe".

@Kaktus I agree, but as one of those white collar workers Im certainly going out, using beauticians, and would love to be using my local food places next to the office all whilst sticking to the rules!

No more shutting down of businesses unless a specific premises has been found to be flouting the guidelines. Instead for the winter period ask people to think about limiting contact with groups of people from outside their household or bubble to essential activities like school and drop the guilt trip about WFH and allow those who can to continue to do so. It's also not surprising that many people have no idea what the rules are any more so perhaps a regular reminder is necessary.

[quote wizzbangfizz]@Kaktus I agree, but as one of those white collar workers Im certainly going out, using beauticians, and would love to be using my local food places next to the office all whilst sticking to the rules! [/quote]
Yes same here. As a white collar worker I don’t want any industries closing down without any clear evidence a) that they are the cause of a rise in cases and b) that shutting them down is a proportionate response.

@Augustbreeze

Extract from BBC current reporting on statement in the Commons this afternoon:

" Mr Hancock told the House of Commons: "Unfortunately, after improving for several weeks, we've seen a very significant rise in cases in Bolton.

"The rise in cases in Bolton is partly due to socialising by people in their 20s and 30s. We know this from contact tracing.

"And through our contact tracing system we've identified a number of pubs at which the virus has spread significantly."

The new measures, which come into force immediately, include:

	• All hospitality for food and drink (restaurants, cafes, bars and pubs) are now restricted to takeaway only

• Late night restriction of operating hours, meaning all venues, including takeaways, will be required to close from 22:00 to 05:00

	• A ban on mixing outside households in public outdoor settings, which will be enforceable by law

Leader of Bolton Council, Cllr David Greenhalgh, said: "This is not something we want to do, but it is clear the virus is currently moving round the borough uncontrolled and so we need to halt the transmission rate." "

What they are doing here is looking at the situation locally which is the right thing to do.

They have evidence that says, in Bolton, the cases are caused by socialising and can be traced back to certain establishments. Therefore it's being dealt with locally.

It does not make sense to shut pubs and restaurants across the country.

I live in a hot spot and our spike in cases was not caused by people socialising in pubs. It was household transmission - closing pubs would have made no difference. In fact, the pubs have remained open and the number of cases has dropped significantly

There is a tiny percentage of false positive test results, much bigger (20-30%) of false negatives.

No..the economy needs to be protected. We are not seeing a rise in hospital admissions...

"There is a tiny percentage of false positive test results, much bigger (20-30%) of false negatives."

Leaving aside the small detail of the fact that nobody knows how many false negative there are, and we have even less idea of how many false positives there are, false negatives are a percentage of the number of positive, false positives are a percentage of the number of tests. The number of tests is much higher than the number of people with the virus. We can reach zero false negatives, but we can never have zero false positives as long as we test. (Assuming we can never produce an infallible test.)

Obviously, false negatives are more 'dangerous' than false positives, but as numbers of tests go up and numbers of people with the virus go down, the false positives become a real problem in obscuring what is actually happening.

@NotAKaren

No more shutting down of businesses unless a specific premises has been found to be flouting the guidelines. Instead for the winter period ask people to think about limiting contact with groups of people from outside their household or bubble to essential activities like school and drop the guilt trip about WFH and allow those who can to continue to do so. It's also not surprising that many people have no idea what the rules are any more so perhaps a regular reminder is necessary.

Just looked on the BBC online news item re Bolton - there's a reminder and link to current restrictions.

The gov.uk has the current guidelines/restrictions clearly laid out.

Surely people are capable of looking it up themselves as a reminder. Do we really need to go back to the days of public information films on the TV to state the bleeding obvious? I really throught we were beyond that now nearly everyone has access to the internet in their pocket!

Aside from the loss of livelihoods in those sectors I don’t think closing them would help much as they have been open since July without a spike in cases. Cases started rising in Scotland in mid August and just recently elsewhere in the UK. Can’t think of any reasons why cases started rising when they did though.