To educate or to orphan a child

[herecomesthsun]

I was released from shielding yesterday. I am well aware that if I get this infection I may well become very unwell (I have a lung process in some ways like cystic fibrosis. I am very well in myself most of the time, but can get very ill with pneumonia and excess mucus production, and have needed to be on a nebuliser in the past).

I have DC1 in primary school (small village school) and DC2 in KS3 of a very good selective secondary school (much bigger and in a local city, so riskier).

DC2 is very worried about me getting ill with the return to school.

3 of my grandparents died when their own children were very young. I know the effect this can have and I think this is worse than being out of education for a few months.

We have been able to educate our children fairly well at home,but I do not want DC2 especially to lose that school place (which was very well earned by competitive exam).

The alternative would be quite risky and it would be hard enough to have family illness without a young person feeling that they had been the main risk factor.

I think that the government plans are going to leave some families to be bereaved in this way, inevitably.The priorities are keeping hospitality going- because it is business - and then keeping the schools going - so people can get back to work - but bereavements are going to create longstanding problems for societies in themselves.

We have increasing numbers of older parents these days and there are children going home to parents over 50 and/or with health conditions which, even if they are not significant in the usual run of things,could cause a lot of problems with covid.

For us, shielding and return to school are not separate issues, as our one household needs to do both.

I would certainly not want to compromise my children´s education. I see their lives as more important than mine and I think that given the choice I would probably make a choice in favour of them.

However, as regards my own parents, the loss of one or both parents in itself led to educational choices being greatly curtailed. My mother went to work as a a teenager rather than going on to college to be a teacher, my father did not fulfil his academic promise.

I think the best chance for my own childrenś education prospects is to try and hang around as long as I possibly can.

So would it be selfish to keep them off from school for the next couple of terms, when there are effectively 2 parents available who can educate them (semi-retired)?

Would it be reasonable for starters to keep them off for the first month to see how things go and cite family vulnerability?

What do you think?

@herecomesthsun

Thatś a sensible idea. I know that my GPs would be flummoxed to advise and I have written to my respiratory consultant but not had a direct answer (they just set up shielding after a long delay).

I assumed the resp team was rather busy ,so left them alone to manage the actively unwell Covid patients on their wards.

I don think any appointments would be forthcoming at this time (hospital appointments locally are being repeatedly cancelled, rescheduled and cancelled again). I could write I suppose and ask for their assessment of the situation.

I think they would just say that there is a lot of uncertainty about a lot of these issues, though enough cause for concern in my case to suggest shielding.

Iḿ very well when I don´t have an active chest infection and very unwell when I have a relapse.

I hear what you’re saying about the respiratory team being busy but equally, I think you are entitled to some level of care and advice. :)

Is it Bronchiectasis you have?

I don't know what the answer is OP but I'm in the same boat. Shielding up to now with severe lung disease (possibly same one as you as similar to CF but I am chronically unwell with it and often in hospital, on daily antibiotics and nebulisers etc). My ds is starting sixth form college in September and I just don't see how they can bubble them in such a massive setting (2,000 students over three campuses, they travel between them for different subjects). But I want him to go. He has not had any work since march as year 11 simply left them out in the cold with nothing. He really needs to go back to school and get his education and I cannot home school him at A Level, and am not well enough anyway. He could learn online but he is so much better learning in the classroom, he needs the discipline of it and the setting. I just can't see a win scenario with this, the only way is for me to SD more from him and him to change and shower every day on return. It's miserable OP but I'm at the stage where I want to weigh the risk to live a life out of the constraints of extreme shielding and allow my family to live that life too - dh is a keyworker who comes into contact with many people and DD really needs to get back to uni. So at the moment I am sending ds back to school as I think the risk is so minimal now compared to his life and future.

So difficult but I do comfort myself with the fact that even people with lung diseases are surviving covid and not always even getting very ill with it. The figures are still in our favour.

Difficult.

I think in your shoes I would send the DC to school but try my best to socially distance within the home. So you could still be there for teeth brushing and other logistics, and for chats and general being there for them, but all from a distance (no cuddles, hard I know, but they do have another parent). Still a risk of catching it of course but much reduced if you are keeping well away from their breath. Obviously get them to wash hands/face, change clothes immediately on returning. If they were younger I wouldn’t suggest this path but sounds like they are old enough to understand that they can’t come too close to mum?

I think social distancing will be very difficult, for example long drive to and from school last year, as the best logstical way of getting in, and we are being advised against public transport even more at the moment.

It is such a difficult choice OP.
I am at increased risk, but not at shielding level. I have a child with auto-immune disease too, and haven’t been given much advice on how this could affect risk.
She is saying how can she go from being extremely careful and socially distancing , to a school with no safety measures, where most of her year group are now having parties, and in an area absolutely heaving with tourists. I think it would be astonishing if cases aren’t rising here in September, and I am starting to panic about what to do.
She is going into the sixth form, so pretty crucial, and my younger child has missed a lot of school anyway due to illness, so missing more could end up affecting her GCSEs .

I do think though, that losing a parent is far worse than missing some schooling, and that as you are shielding, keeping your children off at the start of the year and seeing how things pan out is not at all unreasonable. There is a recent study from South Korea that shows teenagers are the age group most likely to spread the virus, so the idea that schools can go back with no safety measures seems insane. I am mid fifties, many other parents are a similar age, or have a live in Grandparent.

We have enrolled our ds in internet school to mitigate for a vulnerable household member who is in immunosuppressants and to ensure continued education as he is going into yr 10. We are fortunate enough to be able to afford this option. We already home educated 2 children (one who is also going to attend the internet school). We have made the decision to allow the children to carry on with activities (one cricket, 2 football and one karate) as we feel these carry more minimal risks and allow for the children to maintain friendships and stay healthy. DHs company (global) has no plans to return anyone to offices until next year sometime and eldest dc commutes to a top London uni and has a timetable already where the vast majority of learning is online and only needs to be onsite 1 day a weeks. We don't have to consider wider family as they live far away and we don't see them.

Keep your children off and don't feel compromised or guilty.

@herecomesthsun

I think social distancing will be very difficult, for example long drive to and from school last year, as the best logstical way of getting in, and we are being advised against public transport even more at the moment.

Yes, I was assuming your OH could take over any tasks that require close contact as you say they are semi retired too. Or perhaps I misread.

Oh dear, I think DH would struggle a lot with that for various reasons.

If you are determined for DC to attend selected school then take the necessary precautions you can.

Whilst driving DC sits in the back in a mask and keep windows open even just a bit in winter.

Clothes taken off straight into machine or a laundry basket you don't touch for 72 hours or better DH does laundry.

DC has a shower on return home.

Physically distance at home, sit other side of dinner table, different sofa. If you can you have a separate bathroom.

If you remain concerned you might orphan your children, although that would mean both parents succumbing, train your DH and children up in case they ever have to live without you (god that's a horrible sentence and you are not alone fretting you might not make it through this pandemic I would be surprised if we haven't all gone down that dark hole at least once).

Take matters back into your own hands as much as you can.

It sounds like DH is not dumb he and the children would work it out if that is any reassurance.

Or take the kids out of school for this academic year, home school, look at other school options if you can't keep the present place.

It's a decision many face and it's not an easy one but I know a family of 5, mum, dad, 3 children 20, 18 and 16. They had confirmed Covid-19 with two family members dad and 18, mum displayed symptoms but never tested positive and 20 & 16 year olds never caught. So it's possible not to catch it within a household but it does mean you have to act as though you all have it in the house.

But they might be your options.

Hope you find a solution.

Excellent posts @sunseekin and @IceCreamAndCandyfloss

So I have contacted the respiratory team for advice letś see whether they get back to me.

If your personal risk us so high then the best path first would be to homeschool but try not to deregister.

See where you get with that first then reevaluate.

So I have got as far as the consultantś secretary. I asked whether they could give advice or even provide a letter for schools, in my situation. She said ¨Oh no we don´t do that... weŕe just inundated...with the Covid... we couldn´t do that... just follow the Government guidelines... do whatever they say...thatś our limit...we can´t do more than that¨.

I pointed out mildly that I had communicated with other people (or patients) in a similar situation, where the medical team was supporting the family with advice and a letter to the school; and that if children were going to go back in September into crowded schools with poor social distancing, then the respiratory team were liable to have even more poorly and vulnerable people with Covid to look after; and that some advance planning about homeschooling and return to school might reduce the workload overall. But no .

Thought so. I think a proper letter from me might be in order though.

I still think it was a good idea to get in touch with them,so thanks again.

I do appreciate your initial question has been answered very well already, but I do wonder what you think is the alternative to the government plans?

You say its their policy which will leave families bereaved, but honestly what is the alternative? We can't all work from home or be furloughed indefinitely. The basic structure of our society means people need to work in various forms to contribute.

You can only have control of your own behaviour here, so either send the children back to school or not. In the nicest way, what do you want your consultant to say? Here's a letter for a free school year pass?

I'm not sure that very vulnerable people like you and many others will ever feel very comfortable with "normal" again. It must be very frightening.

I think it would be reasonable for the less vulnerable families to start back first and the more vulnerable families to see how the first half term goes. This would give the schools more time and space for the first bunch and then we could get some more information on how the blasted virus behaves as winter is setting in.

As you will see from previous posts by other mumsnetters,the idea of contacting the resp team came from other people on this thread. To be honest, I wasn´t overly optimistic,but other medical teams have done exactly what you suggest, given advice to schools and patients about how to go forward more safely.

Oh,and re people being able to work from home,people do have different circumstances,so I think it would be reasonable to have an element of choice with this,if you are able to work independently.

I just think, whichever student is in question, there will always be someone more vulnerable or "key to society" as part of their wider family. It's not as simple to say, ah send in the others first.

You can only have responsibility for your own family in this situation. Can you imagine being happy for them to return next year or the year after? There's no easy answer here and families are just going to have to get selfish, in a good way, and do what suits them best.

So by less vulnerable, I am thinking, peeps who have not been shielding, here.By more vulnerable, I am thinking ex-shielders, who are able and willing to home educate, alongside whatever they are doing for work.

I think that in a yearś time the situation will be a lot easier to assess and I could certainly imagine wanting them back in or before then.

I think it gets more of a concern the closer they are to exam years and school transitions.

It sounds nice but it just won't work I'm afraid. Come September you need to make a decision for your own family (unless there's further lockdown and in which case, it's made for you)

It would work if there were a political will to do it. It won´t work if the Government doesn´t do it. But it would save lives if they could be bothered.

@herecomesthsun

It would work if there were a political will to do it. It won´t work if the Government doesn´t do it. But it would save lives if they could be bothered.

It needs to be practical not political. Even if the government threw millions more at Education there wouldn't be enough time to put in facility to provide home and classroom learning at the same time as well as extra safety precautions like extra transport or classroom space ready for the new term in September. You'd effectively need to double the staffing for a start beyond anything else.

Not if you just allow parents to choose. Attend school or home ed for the term without threat of fines, no pressure from schools to attend. Parents organise the work they do at home. Schools let know what topics are covered during the term by sending a scheme of work overview

I think if you want to home educate then do (but with proper plans in place for socialising etc) but I don’t think you can expect school to keep places or provide any sort of work.

Ds has been shielding so I do get how tough it is, we considered home Ed but are happy with the set up at his school, but if we had gone down the home Ed route we would have deregister and done it properly.

@Trackandtrace

Not if you just allow parents to choose. Attend school or home ed for the term without threat of fines, no pressure from schools to attend. Parents organise the work they do at home. Schools let know what topics are covered during the term by sending a scheme of work overview

The problem with that is managing those who are absent. Not all will be kept home for medical reasons there will be the ones that are potential safeguarding issues that will slip through the net. If parents have choice then how can you enforce those with vulnerable children to be in school. Also if your child is registered at school its up to school to make sure they are providing adequate learning and education they can't provide that for both settings. Of course some parents (like OP) are probably more than qualified/capable to home educate but many aren't. There isn't the staff or funds available to many schools to be able to oversee a half in half out non compulsory attendance and ensure each child is A. Safe and B. Receiving adequate level of education. Unfortunately not every parent would their child home through good intentions like yourself and OP.