First English pubs to close in Covid scares DAYS after lockdown eased.

[HeIenaDove]

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/first-english-pubs-close-coronavirus-22311408

First English pubs to close in coronavirus scares days after lockdown eased
The Lighthouse Kitchen & Carvery in Burnham-on-Sea, The Fox & Hounds, in Batley, West Yorkshire, and The Village Home Pub in Alverstoke, Hampshire, have all announced a customers has tested positive for coronavirus

@ElizabethMainwaring

That is so gobsmackingly simplistic that I'm not even sure why I am bothering to comment

That was in response to enlightenedowl's 'we need to get back to normal' comment.

"But we must think of the economy, that's all that's important didn't you know!"

Yes, we must why do people still not understand how important the economy is? Sick of hearing this wealth before health crap... There is no health without an economy!

Actually we need to get back to normal

Are you willing to die for that to happen?
Are you willing to let your children or partner die for that to happen?
Are you willing for your elderly relatives to drop dead for that to happen?

Because every single person that says "We need to get back to normal" is saying that they are willing for others to catch covid to let it spread, to let it kill.people. so, is your life worth giving for the local pub to open up? Or is it just others that can get it and die?

@labyrinthloafer

You make complete sense. Just as people can’t be guilt tripped into staying indoors, many others won’t be compelled to go out, shop, browse, dine at restaurants etc, aka all the things needed for an economic recovery. You can’t force them to abandon their worries. That’s just as authoritarian.

I would love to go out and browse/spend money at non-essential shops around me. But mask wearing is very very low in these places (probably 10%). And the shops are small and cramped with minimal distancing inside. The cafes are worse. Why should I go in?

Consumer confidence is key to economic recovery and that means stronger suppression of the virus.

@cherrybun01

I mean 3 out of the hundreds and hundreds of public places reopened (let's not forget it wasnt just pubs, it was bars, restaurants, cafes, hairdressers) is not actually that shocking or unexpected. the virus hasnt gone has it, there was obviously going to be a few places that this happened with. what's the point and purpose of this thread?

Yes, and what matters is track and trace and other government systems from here.

Because if they work it's just three, then maybe another three, then maybe another three.

If they don't work it could be three, five, nine, fifteen, 25, 40, 55, 68.

So we need to see how the systems work.

I do not know yet how they will work. But I do believe that if they don't, our economy will be more affected. The PM has gambled on opening earlier than Scotland, at a time when we had higher cases.

@MonkeyToesOfDoom I mean you've gone a bit too far the other way havent you........it really is simple, you can wait until they have vaccinations and medication ready or you can live your life to the best you can. dont expect the rest of us who dont want to stay at home watching our lives as we know it fall apart to join your sentiments. you take risks every day - you've got to come to terms with this fact

@ICouldBeTheOne

And? My city of half a million people had 4 yesterday. Even if it's higher than 4, what do you want?

Pubs closed again? Till when?

But some pubs HAVE just closed again. That’s the whole point. And we’re only a few days in to the reopening.

How is it financially viable for a pub to keep closing, testing its staff, reopening, then closing, every time a customer tests positive??

@Redolent consumer confidence is key is especially true for a country like ours, where a v high % of the economy is leisure - therefore non-residential and also pensioner spending.

All the talk of 'nothing to worry about if you are low-risk' is, unfortunately, reinforcing the message to pensioners that there is a risk to them.
The economy will suffer more because the health issues were not robustly tackled. In NZ pensioners can spend their money in a very low (not no) risk environment.

@CrowdedHouseinQuarantine

is anyone cleaning the pen you use the sign in?

As often as we can but certainly not between each customer

Typo: non-residential should be non-essential

comparisons to New Zealand dont work for the very obvious reason of the vast difference in population vs square miles. we are all much more packed in. also, to those on here who seem to know more than the rest of us, what's the answer if track and trace doesnt work?? we cannot furlough people forever and a lot would not stick to a second lockdown. the reality is, as sad as it is to say, whichever path you go down people are going to suffer because of it. you have to let people manage risk for themselves as we always have done. this isnt going to be the last virus we have to live alongside. also, it's easy to say oh those without underlying health issues and all that but how do any of us truly know we dont? or know how we may be affected if we were to catch this? I cannot fathom living in such a world where I am so scared of living my life I merely exist. and I dont intend to.

We certainly do need to get back to normal! We need, and want, to get to a place where there is no longer a highly contagious novel virus in circulation in most societies throughout the world. Where we no longer need to social distance, can mingle in crowds, travel, socialise, shop, eat out, work, educate our children etc etc freely.

I think that is what the vast majority of people around the world want and need. How and when we get there is what is currently being discussed, not that fact that that's what we want.

how do any of us know we dont have an undiagnosed heart condition or diabetes for example? what of those who are smokers? who are overweight? we dont know how this virus would affect any of us. you can't live like that, questioning the what ifs, otherwise none of us would ever leave our houses

I've come to terms with it.

What people are saying is that any Covid that's traced back to any pub, cafe, restaurant etc and any loss of life or serious suffering caused by that spread from that place being open is worth it for the sake of that place being open.

If people can live with that, crack on. If the owners of the businesses are happy to accept they might cause the spread of a deadly disease then that's all good.

I wonder though, how will the economy work if the virus causes customers of a business to become severely ill, a couple die, so customers stop going to that business? How will the business owners feel knowing they could have caused the spread and death of someone's loved one?

But @MonkeyToesOfDoom business owners are not responsible for spreading the virus. That's unfair. If a business owner follows government guidelines and there is still an outbreak in their pub that's unfortunate but how is it there fault? Presumably any customer who enters the premise with the virus is asymptomatic so not their fault either. Its just one of those things that will happen, but its no one's fault (except for the government maybe for not enacting early measures to get the virus under control so that we could actually open the economy up safely...)

@MonkeyToesOfDoom

I've come to terms with it.

What people are saying is that any Covid that's traced back to any pub, cafe, restaurant etc and any loss of life or serious suffering caused by that spread from that place being open is worth it for the sake of that place being open.

If people can live with that, crack on. If the owners of the businesses are happy to accept they might cause the spread of a deadly disease then that's all good.

I wonder though, how will the economy work if the virus causes customers of a business to become severely ill, a couple die, so customers stop going to that business? How will the business owners feel knowing they could have caused the spread and death of someone's loved one?

"How will the business owners feel knowing they could have caused the spread and death of someone's loved one?"

What a ridiculous comment. God forbid business owners try to make money to keep a roof over the head. Supermarket workers, doctors and nurses, pharmacists teachers etc could all spread it in exactly the same way. Or are businesses and work places that directly benefit you ok to open? Just now the ones you frown at.

Not*

@cherrybun01

comparisons to New Zealand dont work for the very obvious reason of the vast difference in population vs square miles. we are all much more packed in. also, to those on here who seem to know more than the rest of us, what's the answer if track and trace doesnt work?? we cannot furlough people forever and a lot would not stick to a second lockdown. the reality is, as sad as it is to say, whichever path you go down people are going to suffer because of it. you have to let people manage risk for themselves as we always have done. this isnt going to be the last virus we have to live alongside. also, it's easy to say oh those without underlying health issues and all that but how do any of us truly know we dont? or know how we may be affected if we were to catch this? I cannot fathom living in such a world where I am so scared of living my life I merely exist. and I dont intend to.

The comparisons to other places e.g. Singapore and Germany may appeal to you more.

I am not scared, really. I am concerned we are not on top of the virus and it will therefore cause more problems.

I am not however spending as much money as I was, because the activities are not fun as they were, and if they were unrestricted as pre-covid they would be too risky.

There are millions of people like me.

How do you propose to entice me to spend?

And how do you propose the get pensioners, who are at risk, to spend?

We need to have a clear plan, for health and the economy.

I was watching tv this morning and was so upset for the people who have lost/will lose their jobs in the hospitality/entertainment industries. They ranged from a bloke who ran a highly-successful tech company for concerts/auditoria to a pastry chef.

It sickens me when I read posts from people who think all these trashed lives are absolutely worth it so long as they themselves can hole up at home and “someone” can finance them and deliver shopping etc ad infinitum. They have no empathy at all. “Saving lives” indeed. They just care about prolonging their own at the expense of everyone else.

@MonkeyToesOfDoom I imagine how the customers and business owners feel depends on how the virus has been contracted. If someone died of Covid contracted from my local I would expect the local health and safety executive may investigate and aside from that I would analyse it myself - if I felt that the establishment had taken all reasonable steps to reduce transmission (system in place for identifying And contacting patrons, spacing between tables, no bar service, no shared condiments/pens, disposable menus etc.) then I would chalk it up to chance and misfortune that the establishment had been involved (did the person contracting hug their Covid+ friend, not wash their hands etc. Not unbelievable given the scenes in the papers at the weekend). This therefore would not prevent me from returning and if I owned the business, whilst I would be sad for the family, I would not feel responsible. However, if the establishment had no measures in place (Like the pubs doing lock-ins during lockdown) and there was an outbreak I don’t expect I would return and if I owned the business would expect to be held somewhat responsible by HSE. I imagine a lot of people attending venues feel similarly. A diner unfortunately died from choking on his dinner at a local restaurant, to me the first scenario is similar, the restaurant had done all they could to prevent risk and unfortunately it wasn’t elimInated, whereas the second scenario where no measures are in place, is to me, much more resembling a salmonella outbreak etc. And as such would affect my behaviour

Sorry that was really long! 😂

@Redolent

Because it's more financially viable for that pub to close for a few days for a deep clean and staff to be tested, then reopen, than it is for that pub and all the other hundreds of thousands of pubs to remain closed for an indefinite period when billions have already been lost for the ecoonomy from the on-licence alcohol industry being shut down for the last 3 months.

@IrmaFayLear

I was watching tv this morning and was so upset for the people who have lost/will lose their jobs in the hospitality/entertainment industries. They ranged from a bloke who ran a highly-successful tech company for concerts/auditoria to a pastry chef.

It sickens me when I read posts from people who think all these trashed lives are absolutely worth it so long as they themselves can hole up at home and “someone” can finance them and deliver shopping etc ad infinitum. They have no empathy at all. “Saving lives” indeed. They just care about prolonging their own at the expense of everyone else.

I agree this is a huge problem.

But our government needs to lead us through, with a plan.

I care about hospitality and my own DH has lost his job.

But the industry can not recover without at-risk customers feeling safe enough to return. We have to deal with reality - of the virus, of the way our economy is structured and of human nature.

The economy will not recover if there is nothing more than a charge of the light brigade mentality.

@IrmaFayLear

I was watching tv this morning and was so upset for the people who have lost/will lose their jobs in the hospitality/entertainment industries. They ranged from a bloke who ran a highly-successful tech company for concerts/auditoria to a pastry chef.

It sickens me when I read posts from people who think all these trashed lives are absolutely worth it so long as they themselves can hole up at home and “someone” can finance them and deliver shopping etc ad infinitum. They have no empathy at all. “Saving lives” indeed. They just care about prolonging their own at the expense of everyone else.

Well said! This is exactly it. Stay home, lose your income, protect me!

@MonkeyToesOfDoom

Actually we need to get back to normal

Are you willing to die for that to happen?
Are you willing to let your children or partner die for that to happen?
Are you willing for your elderly relatives to drop dead for that to happen?

Because every single person that says "We need to get back to normal" is saying that they are willing for others to catch covid to let it spread, to let it kill.people. so, is your life worth giving for the local pub to open up? Or is it just others that can get it and die?

Well in that case we must immediately ban anything that can kill.

That's booze gone. Cigs gone. Cars, buses, trains, planes, all gone. Swimming pools? Gone. Trampoline parks? Gone. Any kind of sports really, definitely gone. Small round objects, gone. Grapes, definitely gotta go.

Anything else?

People die every day. Death is not a new thing.

One thing that will definitely kill people is a buggered economy, no money, no healthcare, more premature or avoidable death. Lower life expectancy all round (that includes the people you've saved from covid btw)

even if you got a test Sunday it's unlikely that you'd get a result on Monday.

Well I know several people who've had coronavirus tests and had one myself and in every case they've received results the next day. I received my result the next day. So entirely possible. Positive test Monday, contact tracers and pubs informed same day, journalists will have been actively looking for this information in real time.

It's also possible that some of the people who tested positive were key workers having routine tests or people having tests for reasons other than feeling ill. Many healthcare workers are being tested weekly, in which case they may have had results Sat or Sun. I had my test prior to an appointment at a 'clean' hospital so I didn't have it because I thought I was ill, but because it was a (very sensible) requirement for proceeding with my treatment.