First English pubs to close in Covid scares DAYS after lockdown eased.

[HeIenaDove]

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/first-english-pubs-close-coronavirus-22311408

First English pubs to close in coronavirus scares days after lockdown eased
The Lighthouse Kitchen & Carvery in Burnham-on-Sea, The Fox & Hounds, in Batley, West Yorkshire, and The Village Home Pub in Alverstoke, Hampshire, have all announced a customers has tested positive for coronavirus

They just care about prolonging their own at the expense of everyone else.

Interesting. So those that think England is opening too soon are only interested in prolonging our lives... The flip side then is that people keen to open are only interested in shortening their lives.

Sounds good, I've changed my mind, let's get everything open.
Let it spread through the people using those businesses and all the deaths can just be written off as collateral damage.
At least the population will be lowered so parking in towns might be easier soon, especially if we do get a second peak and another 50000 dead bodies need burning.

People who go to the pub with symptoms and then decide to get tested would be 100% idiots though

Indeed, but there are idiots out there. Don't forget people have admitted they went to Anfield or Cheltenham back in March despite having symptoms!

This is the problem, there is a minority of people who are in denial about the seriousness of Covid and the ease in which it's transmitted. They just do what the hell they want and sod everyone else!

I was invited for a test last week from the ZOE app. Got email at 4 pm. Logged on at 6pm to book. Booked on for 7:30pm. Had negative result by 10 next morning. Tests are super quick. These people may have had no symptoms on the Saturday..

@MonkeyToesOfDoom All predictions are that more people will die of cancer due to the (necessary) response to the CV crisis than will have died of covid.

That's one area of the NHS. Hundreds of thousands of others in other areas WILL die because of the toll of the CV crisis. Not just delays in diagnosis and treatment but when the economic effects take it's toll on the NHS.

There'll be more cuts to services, more delays, more deaths, fewer experienced staff.

Plus all the health problems directly caused by the CV crisis associated with poverty, unemployment, homelessness, poor mental health.

The NHS is already being privatised by the back door and this will worsen. There is no NHS without taxes and a fully functioning economy.

The death toll created by the CV response (though necessary) will be far higher than CV deaths and the longer we don't attempt to get the economy moving, the worse it will be.

It's not just deaths from CV that matter, and a balancing act.

Lmao...

Thinking this is some sort of 'gotcha'

That's booze gone. Cigs gone. Cars, buses, trains, planes, all gone. Swimming pools? Gone. Trampoline parks? Gone. Any kind of sports really, definitely gone. Small round objects, gone. Grapes, definitely gotta go.

How many of those things have right controls put in place to ensure loss of.life doesn't occur?
Booze - age limit
Cigs - age limit and hidden from view
Cars - extensive lessons and a test
Buses, trains, planes - extensive training for the controller's of those things.
Swimming pools - lifeguards.
Trampoline parks - trained staff and controlling numbers within.
Sports - rules

You think a virus, a pandemic, can be controlled in the same fashion as a Boeing? Just train it up to fly elsewhere?

That's a good joke..
I can see the similarities..

@Hugglespuffed I was in the same situation, did the Home test on a Friday at 3pm, posted it and then had the results at midnight on Saturday. So quick given postage and weekend, I was really impressed.

So the big question I have is what happens now for the other customers who were in the same place at the same time? This could apply e.g to hairdressers as well as pubs. Will they now be told to self-isolate or will it only be the people in the actual group with the person who tested positive who are now supposed to isolate for 2weeks? I’m not clear about this?

I’ll be happy to go to the pub for a pint just as i’m happy to go back into the office /meet with friends in the park. However I would not be happy if by just being in the same venue as a random person who tests positive means me (& my family?) then have to curtail all our activities for 2weeks.

It's not just deaths from CV that matter, and a balancing act.

I absolutely agree. But what if the balance is not right at the minute? What if opening things up will cause it to fall one way and make all of the issues you've just listed 10x worse as well as causing far more Covid cases? What then?

Will people be looking back in 5 years and seeing 2020 as the year almost 100000 died because this government didn't lock down early enough, tight enough and for long enough?
Do you want yourself.or someone you love to be one of those 100000 dead stats?

@MonkeyToesOfDoom

Lmao...

Thinking this is some sort of 'gotcha'

That's booze gone. Cigs gone. Cars, buses, trains, planes, all gone. Swimming pools? Gone. Trampoline parks? Gone. Any kind of sports really, definitely gone. Small round objects, gone. Grapes, definitely gotta go.

How many of those things have right controls put in place to ensure loss of.life doesn't occur?
Booze - age limit
Cigs - age limit and hidden from view
Cars - extensive lessons and a test
Buses, trains, planes - extensive training for the controller's of those things.
Swimming pools - lifeguards.
Trampoline parks - trained staff and controlling numbers within.
Sports - rules

You think a virus, a pandemic, can be controlled in the same fashion as a Boeing? Just train it up to fly elsewhere?

That's a good joke..
I can see the similarities..

Do booze and cigs not kill over 18s then? I didn't know that.

Do car accidents not happen? Do planes never crash? Do people not jump in front of trains then?

People die from ALL those things. Regularly.

But you don't want to ban them.

So it's ok for people to die of anything else, but Corona?

Are you happy that thousands of cancer patients will now die, most of whom wouldn't have if they'd continued their treatment? Are they an acceptable swap?

@MonkeyToesOfDoom

Lmao...

Thinking this is some sort of 'gotcha'

That's booze gone. Cigs gone. Cars, buses, trains, planes, all gone. Swimming pools? Gone. Trampoline parks? Gone. Any kind of sports really, definitely gone. Small round objects, gone. Grapes, definitely gotta go.

How many of those things have right controls put in place to ensure loss of.life doesn't occur?
Booze - age limit
Cigs - age limit and hidden from view
Cars - extensive lessons and a test
Buses, trains, planes - extensive training for the controller's of those things.
Swimming pools - lifeguards.
Trampoline parks - trained staff and controlling numbers within.
Sports - rules

You think a virus, a pandemic, can be controlled in the same fashion as a Boeing? Just train it up to fly elsewhere?

That's a good joke..
I can see the similarities..

Lol are you seriously saying those controls ensure people dont die from alcohol, cigarettes and cars? Ok then!!! There are controls put in place in every business and work place to reduce the spread. Reduce being the key word. All we can do is limit the risks, not eliminate them. Unfortunately this virus has a high asymptomatic rate but we cannot all sit at home and not go to work forever incase we are asymptomatic. Life would grind to a halt!

@Mumratheevergiving

So the big question I have is what happens now for the other customers who were in the same place at the same time? This could apply e.g to hairdressers as well as pubs. Will they now be told to self-isolate or will it only be the people in the actual group with the person who tested positive who are now supposed to isolate for 2weeks? I’m not clear about this?

I’ll be happy to go to the pub for a pint just as i’m happy to go back into the office /meet with friends in the park. However I would not be happy if by just being in the same venue as a random person who tests positive means me (& my family?) then have to curtail all our activities for 2weeks.

As far as I know, if you're contacted by someone from track and trace and have been exposed then you, your family and everyone you've been in close contact with should isolate for 2 weeks. www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/testing-and-tracing/nhs-test-and-trace-if-youve-been-in-contact-with-a-person-who-has-coronavirus/

There’s definitely non-compliant people out there i know of people in Leicester ‘lockdown’ planning to go on holiday elsewhere in UK! Apparently locally they were planning on going out to pubs further afield in Leicestershire too to beat the ban.

[quote ICouldBeTheOne]@MonkeyToesOfDoom All predictions are that more people will die of cancer due to the (necessary) response to the CV crisis than will have died of covid.

That's one area of the NHS. Hundreds of thousands of others in other areas WILL die because of the toll of the CV crisis. Not just delays in diagnosis and treatment but when the economic effects take it's toll on the NHS.

There'll be more cuts to services, more delays, more deaths, fewer experienced staff.

Plus all the health problems directly caused by the CV crisis associated with poverty, unemployment, homelessness, poor mental health.

The NHS is already being privatised by the back door and this will worsen. There is no NHS without taxes and a fully functioning economy.

The death toll created by the CV response (though necessary) will be far higher than CV deaths and the longer we don't attempt to get the economy moving, the worse it will be.

It's not just deaths from CV that matter, and a balancing act.[/quote]
We deserve better tbh. In Germany, for various reasons but including sustained investment in public health, they are not facing this choice.

It shouldn't be a choice between covid deaths or cancer deaths. We should have been able to respond better than we did.

I am not suggesting no deaths from covid was realistic, but ours we're very high - even though we massively limited other treatments.

That needs looking at and I believe we can do better than that.

If the pub or any other business closes for a “deep” clean then it is failing to understand this virus, or any other contagion.

They should be doing regular and thorough cleaning all the time. In the case of CV, it is prevented by regular cleaning not infrequent deep cleaning. The owners should always assume someone has been in who has the virus. That’s how they manage the risk properly.

At the core of the story is a reality that people with symptoms will socialise or go to work. They are too stupid or too selfish not to. They did it in February and March.

And yes we can blame business owners who flout health and safety rules for the consequences of their actions. In fact we prosecute them. And at the very least we can take away our custom.

@Jrobhatch29

You present it as a binary choice between 'getting on with it ' vs. 'staying at home forever'.

Both of those are stupid.

This really isn't a culture war issue, and the countries taking that approach - USA, Brazil and sadly, England a bit - are making a mess of it.

The approach should be public health + economy.

It was bollocks when Osborne said we were all in it together after the crash, but with this we really are. Many of the people with the highest covid risk, primarily due to age, are also the people we need to be spending. So we need a plan to get that happening.

We also need tourists, and we will have to see what they think of the UK as a destination.

How likely is it you could get the virus from a surface? We have been told post and takeaways pose minimum risk.
The virus is most contagious when a person is in close contact with an infected individual in an enclosed space for more than 15 minutes. Not when you touch a surface that someone infected touched the day before.

I am puzzled by the emphasis on deep cleaning.

[quote ICouldBeTheOne]@Redolent

Because it's more financially viable for that pub to close for a few days for a deep clean and staff to be tested, then reopen, than it is for that pub and all the other hundreds of thousands of pubs to remain closed for an indefinite period when billions have already been lost for the ecoonomy from the on-licence alcohol industry being shut down for the last 3 months.[/quote]
Really? So why have they just closed all bars again in the US one month after reopening them? Are they not being savvy there?

‘That pub’ assumes it’s an outlier. Sadly, we know from how covid spreads that they’re worst possible place in terms of superspreading.

@LemonTT

Please also bear in mind some people genuinely can not afford two weeks on our pathetic sick pay.

If I was choosing between working with symptoms or eviction, I would choose the former.

This virus is exposing the mess in our economy and it isn't pretty.

I don't think we're really comparable to the US for a number of reasons.

The problem is people always talk as if cancer deaths and covid deaths are unrelated but they're actually linked.

The more cases of covid there are, the more normal cancer healthcare will be shut down / disrupted and the more covid AND cancer deaths. The more we lower covid infections (by e.g. wearing masks inside), the more the rest of the health service is free to deal with cancer. It's not an either /or. It's both together. They both go up or they both go down depending on what we - as a society - do to reduce covid infections.

So I hope people who care about cancer services are rigorously wearing masks and social distancing.

Cars, planes, smoking, etc etc etc.. yes people still die with all those controls in place..

Imagine how many more would.if those controls were lifted and left to run on their own.. like a virus..

A lot of hospitals have had a capacity to deal with cancer patients, they have chosen or been told not to use it.

This idea that every single hospital was over run with covid patients and could not possibly handle cancer patients too is bollocks.

Some will have been over run, but a small minority, for a very short period of time.

[quote ICouldBeTheOne]@MonkeyToesOfDoom All predictions are that more people will die of cancer due to the (necessary) response to the CV crisis than will have died of covid.

That's one area of the NHS. Hundreds of thousands of others in other areas WILL die because of the toll of the CV crisis. Not just delays in diagnosis and treatment but when the economic effects take it's toll on the NHS.

There'll be more cuts to services, more delays, more deaths, fewer experienced staff.

Plus all the health problems directly caused by the CV crisis associated with poverty, unemployment, homelessness, poor mental health.

The NHS is already being privatised by the back door and this will worsen. There is no NHS without taxes and a fully functioning economy.

The death toll created by the CV response (though necessary) will be far higher than CV deaths and the longer we don't attempt to get the economy moving, the worse it will be.

It's not just deaths from CV that matter, and a balancing act.[/quote]
So true

@MonkeyToesOfDoom

Cars, planes, smoking, etc etc etc.. yes people still die with all those controls in place..

Imagine how many more would.if those controls were lifted and left to run on their own.. like a virus..

Bit the virus isn't being left to run on its own is it? I don't think anyones suggesting it should be. They're just saying closing everything down isn't the answer (hence banning everything dangerous isn't the answer either but it went straaaaaight over your head)

@Rebelwithallthecause

Probably just a scaremongering article to stop some people going to pubs maybe? I can’t see how they’d know already so screams of fake news

Donald? Is that you?