The Government were telling the truth. They followed scientific advice all along.

[NotEverythingIsBlackandWhite]

www.thesun.co.uk/news/11757540/boris-advice-mistakes/

According to official papers released on Friday, Boris Johnson has been following the scientific advice all along. (Forgive me if I'm late to the party but I haven't seen anything about this until today).

It was SAGE who said we shouldn't lock down earlier.
It was SAGE who says Cheltenham and Stereophonics gigs should go ahead as they were low risk.
It was SAGE who said a travel ban would just postpone the epidemic by one month.
It was SAGE who, on February 18, wrongly advised "When there is sustained transmission in the UK, contact tracing will no longer be useful.”

Well done to Boris Johnson and the Govt for trusting in and following scientific advice (even though that advice turned out to be wrong).

Boris Johnson wasn't blindly taking own action after all. Even though SAGE got things wrong, it was right to follow their advice. It was and is a difficult situation but we need to give credit to BJ and co, where it is due.

It's the Sun. Which official papers are these? I'd rather go direct to the source and not click on a sun link. Paper should have been abolished years ago.

What is the point of yiur post? SAGE are advisors. It is the government who make the final decisions. Don't blame the scientists.

www.gov.uk/search/transparency-and-freedom-of-information-releases?organisations%5B%5D=scientific-advisory-group-for-emergencies&parent=scientific-advisory-group-for-emergencies

SAGE minutes of meetings. Only published on Friday.

Not sure on the Sun's analogy. But those the official papers.

Fair enough, but why now ignore the scientific advice?

OP has a point. The conclusions reached by SAGE seem way, way off.

They influenced that advice, Dominic Cummings took part in the SAGE meetings...

@gingganggooleywotsit

What is the point of yiur post? SAGE are advisors. It is the government who make the final decisions. Don't blame the scientists.

The point of the post is hopefully to put an end to the constant Boris bashing on something we know nothing about, a new virus - we were being told all along that Boris was following the science and not allowing any ego to get in the way, but MN knows different.
The government do indeed make the final decisions, and they decided to follow the science!
OP is not blaming the scientists. OP is putting it out there to anti-govt posters that Boris followed the damn science.

Damned if you do and damned if you don't @NotEverythingIsBlackandWhite

Errrrrrrr who appointed all the people on SAGE especially the behavioural scientists & didn't have Public health experts in place.

Yep Johnson & his Government, he put these people in place, he they then fail, that is his responsibility.

The SUN should really be called the TORY, it will back the tories to the hilt.

One of the main contributing factors will be the rubbish science we received out of China in the initial period, which western governments initially (fuck knows why - no one else did) believed to be accurate.

There's no such thing as 'the science'.
'Science' isn't one unified set of facts. It is an evolving body of knowledge with consensus in large areas but disagreement in others.

Which 'science' you follow depends on which scientists you have appointed to listen to.

Please explain why other countries presumably also followed 'the science' but managed to reach very different, much safer conclusions which have resulted in far fewer deaths?

I agree with @Babamamananarama. 'The science' in the rest of the world was advising something totally different and looked on in total horror at what the UK was doing (well, in this part of the world anyway).

And people doubted them. Where's the apologies?

Which 'science' you follow depends on which scientists you have appointed to listen to.

Yes, this. You put 5 scientists in a rock and you'll get 11 different hypotheses.

As I'm sure everyone who has ever attended a meeting can contest, the summarised notes of that meeting doesn't tell the entire story, nor does it show the competing influences in the arrival of a decision. Nor would it include the influence of a political appointee.

Did SAGE also advise Boris Johnson to talk about how he’d been shaking hands with people with coronavirus?

Not that I believe that SAGE represents ‘the science’ anyway.

Not sure that argument follows through with schools..only to return when the 5 point test is met...fudged!

Babamamananaram In the real world the other countries did pretty much the same things as us and like us they saved tens of thousands of lives.

Could we do better now we've got the advantage of hindsight? Yes we could. That's why the armchair experts are doing so well. They didn't have to come up with solutions BEFORE they happened. Only after the fact.

They are government appointed advisors

It is clear that 'following the science' was a ridiculous soundbite used to try and fool the public into believing that the government's lack of action was science based.

In reality, they cherry picked whatever science suited that weeks agenda, and now it's starting to blow up in their faces they are trying to pile the blame on the scientific advisors.

And as for the Sun, I wouldn't even wipe my arse on it!

I don't know where people are getting this "other countries did better" thing. Relative to population we're still not the worst off.

"which western governments initially (fuck knows why - no one else did) believed to be accurate"

Because the WHO team included well known international experts. Including US ones.

The full report is published. Which bits are wrong?

If deliberate misleading of international team by the Chinese, how did they pull it off?

Agree with you OP. And for those now attacking the scientists — these are people at the top of their game, widely respected and who got the job on merit.

Some people love nothing more than a really good whinge.

There are about fifty advisors that form sage and they come up with their recommendations.

The op does have a point, as much as some really wish she didn’t.

However I’d not blame sage, this was an unknown Pandemic and people were doing their best.

And yes the government makes the ultimate decision but at the start of a pandemic why the heck would you appoint fifty scientists then say nah mate, don’t think that’s right, let me do something different.

Now it’s very different, the pandemic is under control and the other needs of the population also have to be factored in to balance it

@LastTrainEast

I don't know where people are getting this "other countries did better" thing. Relative to population we're still not the worst off.

How aspirational.

If deliberate misleading of international team by the Chinese, how did they pull it off?

They were initally given the benefit of the doubt because they were closer to the virus. Ultimately, they were found out to be lying.

Did you know they directly instructed NZ not to lockdown (NZ declined to follow the "advice").

i.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/121511076/coronavirus-nz-podcast-winston-peters-says-china-didnt-want-nz-to-go-into-lockdown