The Government were telling the truth. They followed scientific advice all along.

[NotEverythingIsBlackandWhite]

www.thesun.co.uk/news/11757540/boris-advice-mistakes/

According to official papers released on Friday, Boris Johnson has been following the scientific advice all along. (Forgive me if I'm late to the party but I haven't seen anything about this until today).

It was SAGE who said we shouldn't lock down earlier.
It was SAGE who says Cheltenham and Stereophonics gigs should go ahead as they were low risk.
It was SAGE who said a travel ban would just postpone the epidemic by one month.
It was SAGE who, on February 18, wrongly advised "When there is sustained transmission in the UK, contact tracing will no longer be useful.”

Well done to Boris Johnson and the Govt for trusting in and following scientific advice (even though that advice turned out to be wrong).

Boris Johnson wasn't blindly taking own action after all. Even though SAGE got things wrong, it was right to follow their advice. It was and is a difficult situation but we need to give credit to BJ and co, where it is due.

It was SAGE who says Cheltenham and Stereophonics gigs should go ahead as they were low risk

Technically - they agreed that there was no evidence that banning large gatherings would reduce transmission.

Which is slightly different to saying they should go ahead as they were low risk.

It was SAGE who said we shouldn't lock down earlier

They did say on 5th March that shutting downs restaurants and bars would have an impact - but that would be hard to follow.

I'm not criticising the science. I'm just saying that science can be very subjective and when we are in our own little,echo,chambers it is easy to believe that we are correct. And we are.....until someone comes along and proves us wrong. Science isn't a series of absolutes and when we have humans in the equation, it is even more vague.

Quite often these groups are selected from a small group of academics chosen because their history shows a certain viewpoint and are often friends and colleagues of the people setting up the group. That might not always be the best approach, but it's natural that humans are more disposed towards those who think the same way.

The science states that we should be releasing lockdown at least 12 weeks later.

Yet it's been about 10 weeks.....

So I hope they are following the science now....

The government has followed the science? Like from those two top scientists BoJo wouldn’t allow to answer questions in last week’s briefing? And that happened in public.

And puppetmaster cummings is part of SAGE - consider that for a minute.

Fascinating - Feb 13th before Boris did his hansshakes on the Covid ward

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/888775/S0375_Seventh_SAGE_meeting_on_Covid-19_.pdf

24.At this stage, public messaging should stress the importance of personal responsibility and responsibility to others, in order to drive positive public behaviours.

25.Public messaging should also stress efficacy of certain behaviours –and inform the public where behaviours are ineffective (e.g. avoiding certain types of people or products).

@ForensicAccountant
Those very same scientists publicly welcomed not being forced to answer questions on a purely political matter. Tut tut. Selective quoting is very easy to point out.

Does anyone listen to the Corona virus Newscast?
About a week ago they had a Scientist in who sits on SAGE. Very interesting stuff. (It's still on BBC Sounds)

He basically said he wishes that everyone would stop calling it 'The Science'. There is no one 'Science' - data can always be interpreted in different ways. He said it was basically a huge Zoom meeting where they all put forward their theories and arguments (they are all experts in their field). He said there is often many disagreements.

Somehow from that, the Gov has to decide on what decisions to take. It's no wonder then that they'll get stuff wrong. Like a PP said. It's easy making the right decisions with hindsight.

A lot of MN would be great to have on your side after an emergency.

The COVID-19 threads are literally the Brexit threads all over again.
I agree.
Leavers think BJ and his Brexit gang are doing a brilliant job ignoring all the evidence to show how shit it is.

Oh and on Corona Virus newscast the SAFE said that Cummings has sometimes attended SAGE along with other advisors but very often the advisors never say anything.

Your bias is so obvious and rather babyish @KenDodd. Is Dr Chris Whitty (v highly respected in his field) part of BJ’s “Brexit gang”?

Having taken a quick look at those minutes, I can't see much of anyone saying "How do we stop this and stop this now".

There's lots of things they seem to be getting ready for.
Lots of ideas they have - talking about school closures, gatherings, social distancing - and lots of action points to be discussed at the next meeting.

They did have a lot of meetings.

I don’t believe a word that the government says, it has lied about everything so far. It’s easy to blame others.

@Milicentbystander72

Oh and on Corona Virus newscast the SAFE said that Cummings has sometimes attended SAGE along with other advisors but very often the advisors never say anything.

And very often the advisors aren't worth risking your career over and making a total tit of yourself (unless of course they are the ones pulling the strings - do you really think Cummings had no hand in choosing which bits of advice to cherry pick from the meetings and which bits johnson should choose to ignore? Naive springs to mind).

The government failed, and are now desperately trying to shift the blame.

Don't worry Boris fans, Putin, Trump and Bolsonaro will soon have even more blood on their hands than Boris does so his incompetence won't look quite so bad in comparison. All these leaders had advance warning as well, they could see what was happening in Italy and did nothing. Or well, Boris went on holiday. Covid is a failure of politicians, starting in China. I don't understand why the public would bend over backwards to excuse their incompetence and disinterest when we should be demanding better.

The 5th March minutes are fascinating

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/888781/S0381_Thirteenth_meeting_on_Wuhan_Coronavirus__Covid-19__.pdf

I wonder how much of that was led by the behavioural scientists - as the interventions were known then - but the timing was up for debate.

Sorry but I stopped at The Sun. We should all try reading the evidence ourselves not what the Tory propaganda buddies have cherry picked. I have. This is so wrong it’s crackers

Where's the apologies?
The absolute gall of someone demanding apologies to a government that has cost so many their lives.
The government did not follow the science. The government repeatedly ignored requests from the WHO to follow the science. The government is still ignoring global scientific advice from the WHO by lifting lockdown too early. And they're ignoring advice from Sage on when to lift lockdown.
The death rate lies firmly with Boris and his government and they cannot spin their way out of it. Too many people have lost loved ones. Too many people have been ill. This isn't about soundbites and spin. It's about lives touched and lost.

Is that because the Graun and the Mirror etc are such impartial sources of news, @Astabarista? LOL.

And a LOL to @AnneOfTeenFables too for thinking the WHO is the knight in shining armour when in fact they’re cosying up to China and not calling out their lies.

The death rate lies firmly with Boris and his government

I agree completely.
and they cannot spin their way out of it.
I bet they do though. They'll just lie, they've learned over the last few years how well lying works. The public will swallow it.

Science doesn’t exist in a political vacuum. My DH works in climate research and has been offered financial incentives to put forward a specific set of findings far too many times.

Sounds like you’re a tad biased @YounghillKang**
You’ve stated a bunch of opinions as facts.

Will have to post this in a series as too long for MN!

And did "the science" tell them to screw up protection of care home residents?

Government rejected radical lockdown of England's care homes
Public health officials proposed a radical lockdown of care homes last month to stem surging coronavirus deaths, including staff moving in for four weeks and deploying NHS Nightingale hospitals – but it was rejected by the government
www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/28/government-rejected-radical-lockdown-england-care-homes-coronavirus

Coronavirus: Care homes 'face mass deaths' without PPE
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-52215430

Did "the science" tell them to screw up the offer of ventilators from the EU, and ignore established manufacturers and give out a contract to mate Dyson instead?

Row erupts over Government's acquisition of Dyson's untested ventilators
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/26/row-erupts-governments-acquisition-dysons-untested-ventilators/

The government has faced criticism over its management of ventilator procurement, with critics accusing the government of declining to join a Europe-wide ventilator procurement scheme for political reasons, neglecting offers from UK-based ventilator manufacturers and focusing on designing ventilators from scratch.
eandt.theiet.org/content/articles/2020/04/government-cancels-order-for-10-000-dyson-ventilators/

“It’s also worth noting that in August 2016, Forbes magazine also reported that Dyson is, in fact a very active and influential Conservative Party member. The Electoral Commission also reports that Dyson Ltd donated £11,450 to Conservative MP Michelle Donelan between July 2016 and November 2017.”
spotlight-newspaper.co.uk/health/03/27/tory-donors-brexiteers-gifted-contracts-to-build-ventilators/

www.forbes.com/sites/chloesorvino/2016/08/24/billionaire-inventor-james-dyson-politician-brexit/#5669f1b1c8a9