The Government were telling the truth. They followed scientific advice all along.

[NotEverythingIsBlackandWhite]

www.thesun.co.uk/news/11757540/boris-advice-mistakes/

According to official papers released on Friday, Boris Johnson has been following the scientific advice all along. (Forgive me if I'm late to the party but I haven't seen anything about this until today).

It was SAGE who said we shouldn't lock down earlier.
It was SAGE who says Cheltenham and Stereophonics gigs should go ahead as they were low risk.
It was SAGE who said a travel ban would just postpone the epidemic by one month.
It was SAGE who, on February 18, wrongly advised "When there is sustained transmission in the UK, contact tracing will no longer be useful.”

Well done to Boris Johnson and the Govt for trusting in and following scientific advice (even though that advice turned out to be wrong).

Boris Johnson wasn't blindly taking own action after all. Even though SAGE got things wrong, it was right to follow their advice. It was and is a difficult situation but we need to give credit to BJ and co, where it is due.

And who appointed these scientists? How many were behavioural scientists so beloved of Cummings? Were they the 'weirdos and misfits' he recruited? I wonder if Andrew Sabisky would have had a seat on SAGE if he was still working for government?

I am sure the families of the 60,000 people who make up the excess deaths during the pandemic are really glad that the government appointed scientists who advised differently not only to scientists abroad, but to many scientists in this country.

This does not surprise me at all but of course certain people will always believe whatever they want if it fits their own agenda.

This was the unknown for governments across the world and each have had to make decisions based on numerous factors.

Of course there will be lessons learned this is true of any situation ever. The only way a number of countries including the UK may have done better is if the Chinese Government had acted sooner.

SAGE are one group of scientists, and they are appointed by the government. There was (and still is) a lot of dissent from their opinions. One could argue that the government picked who to believe in selecting their own advisors and ignoring what others had to say. But in the end advice is only advice. Just like it was only advice that you shouldn't drive 260 miles from London to Durham. They managed to ignore that.

I don't know where people are getting this "other countries did better" thing. Relative to population we're still not the worst off.
Relative to population, in terms of deaths, we’ve done worse than ANYWHERE except Belgium and Spain. And we’re closing in on Spain. That’s according to the daily updated figures on Worldometer. I also didn’t realise that “not the worst” was what we were aiming for...

I did wonder how long it would be before Boris and co started pointing the finger of blame at anyone other than themselves. I bet they're successful as well and the public will swallow their excuses and start blaming scientists and doctors. Oh and immigrants of cause and Corbyn.

And did "the science" tell them to screw up protection of care home residents?

Did "the science" tell Johnson to rewrite history in order to defend his crony Cummings?

Did "the science" tell them to screw up PPE provision?

Did "the science" tell them to screw up the offer of ventilators from the EU, and ignore established manufacturers and give out a contract to mate Dyson instead?

Did "the science" tell them to fudge the testing numbers?

Did "the science" tell them to send vulnerable people back to work with out adequate legal/financial protection to allow them to wfh if safer?

Did "the science" tell them to plan the opening of schools without consulting the people who actually run them?

Did "the science" tell them to announce easing with mixed messages encouraging people to hold VE day parties etc?

Did "the science" tell them to screw up communication with the police force and undermine their ability to enforce lockdown?

Is "the science" responsible for running down the NHS for years so it was already stretched to its limits?

Did "the science" tell them to open the Nightingale hospitals without sorting out how they might be staffed?

Did "the science" cut education so that there are already barely enough teachers to cope?

Did "the science" cut down funding to schools so that many don't have adequate hygiene facilities even outside a health crisis?

I could go on...

I also didn’t realise that “not the worst” was what we were aiming for...

I believe if you treat England separately we do have the highest deaths per million in the world. Oh, unless you include San Marino with its tiny population.

There have been some suggestions that the members of SAGE were not especially well-suited to dealing with a pandemic of this sort with representatives of some important scientific areas missing.
Something to think about before the next pandemic perhaps.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/27/gaps-sage-scientific-body-scientists-medical

As an aside, what is the purpose of SAGE other than for dealing with pandemics? I'd never heard of them before. Not being especially scientifically-minded, I wondered what other sort of scientific issues they advise the government on.

Sounds like you’re a tad biased @YounghillKang

You’ve stated a bunch of opinions as facts.

I think a fair few owe Boris an apology tonight

YounghillKang
The Gov and Tory supporters will find excuses for every single one of those things. I think you'll find none of that is gov fault and all somebody elses fault. Boris is doing brilliantly according to huge numbers of people.

I think YounghillKang's post covers it. I'll also add that this is not a "oh we can all judge in hindsight" thinh. People were raising concerns at the time about ebents going ahead, kids still being at school, loockdiwn not happening soon enough, because it was already clear from other countries that those things were important. If our scientists advised all this (uninfluenced), it should have been questioned. We would be in a better position now if it had been.

Ignore the terrible typos, sorry!

If all scientists believed that SAGE advice was so wonderful, why was independent SAGE set up? Why has it been ignored? Why has the government been so slow to respond, or not accepted at all, the evidence which has come out through the ZOE/Kings College Covid research, which is the biggest in the world, anywhere? I'm sorry, but no-one owes Johnson an apology. I am gobsmacked that you can really say that.
Couldn't agree more with what @ky07 says.

Have you read the minutes...

An interesting point in there.

4.SAGE agreed there is no evidence to suggest that banning very large gatherings would reduce transmission. Preventing all social interactionin public spaces, includingrestaurants and bars, would have an effect,but would be very difficult to implement.

15.SAGE agreed that school closures would havesmallereffectson the epidemic curvethan other options

When did we shut down restaurants and bars again?

March 20th.

15 days AFTER this meeting

So the science wasn't followed..

And stop calling him Boris. He's not your mate. It's another ploy to make you think he's one of us. Nothing about Johnson makes him one of us or an admirable human being.

The 5th March minutes

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/888781/S0381_Thirteenth_meeting_on_Wuhan_Coronavirus__Covid-19__.pdf

15 DAYS before we shut down restaurants and bars

And from that:

17.The pointin timeat which measures should be lifted will depend on epidemiological evidence, but is likely to beat least 12 weeks after initial implementation.

18.Cocooning of older and vulnerable patients can start later, and would have to continue longer, than other measures

Time to stop following SAGE I think...........

I’m gobsmacked that so many people waste their time pointing the finger of blame at BJ and never even mention where the virus came from (one of many started there) or the fact that it wasn’t mentioned until it was too late.

Disagree that “everyone knew” what should be done right at the beginning. I have a friend who is very senior in public health. I remember having a discussion with her in March when she told me in all sincerity that schools shouldn’t close because kids don’t transmit covid. I (a non-scientist) was arguing that they should.

@CaptainNelson

And stop calling him Boris. He's not your mate. It's another ploy to make you think he's one of us. Nothing about Johnson makes him one of us or an admirable human being.

Stop telling people what to do. People can call Boris Johnson whatever they want, they don't need your permission.

Mumsnet call on Brexit, it will never happen.
Mumsnet call on December 2019 election. No chance Boris will win.
Mumsnet call on Tory Government has got this all wrong. They're not following the scientific advice.

Spot on @Institutkarite.

Institutkarite

The COVID-19 threads are literally the Brexit threads all over again.