The Government were telling the truth. They followed scientific advice all along.

[NotEverythingIsBlackandWhite]

www.thesun.co.uk/news/11757540/boris-advice-mistakes/

According to official papers released on Friday, Boris Johnson has been following the scientific advice all along. (Forgive me if I'm late to the party but I haven't seen anything about this until today).

It was SAGE who said we shouldn't lock down earlier.
It was SAGE who says Cheltenham and Stereophonics gigs should go ahead as they were low risk.
It was SAGE who said a travel ban would just postpone the epidemic by one month.
It was SAGE who, on February 18, wrongly advised "When there is sustained transmission in the UK, contact tracing will no longer be useful.”

Well done to Boris Johnson and the Govt for trusting in and following scientific advice (even though that advice turned out to be wrong).

Boris Johnson wasn't blindly taking own action after all. Even though SAGE got things wrong, it was right to follow their advice. It was and is a difficult situation but we need to give credit to BJ and co, where it is due.

OP you are barking up the wrong tree here, a man could kick a cat in Wolverhampton and MN would still blame Boris fucking Johnson. He's like Mumsnet's Carol Baskin 🤷🏻‍♀️

Jesus, don't tell me mn has dunk so low we are actually discussing something written in the Sun???

That's scrapping the barrel right enough

Did "the science" tell them to fudge the testing numbers?

Coronavirus testing: Government accused of ‘misleading the public’ amid criticism over figures
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-testing-figures-uk-target-criticism-hancock-a9495621.html

So what's the trick? The Health Service Journal reports that to reach the testing target, the government has begun to count home-testing kits which have been posted to patients, rather than completed and processed in a lab - with tens of thousands urgently dispatched yesterday. Which means that if someone signed up to receive a test on 30 April, this would count towards the governments’ figures – even if it took days or weeks for the actual test to arrive.

When challenged at the press conference, officials 'fessed up. 40,369 tests have been posted out – crucially these are counted when posted, not when the results come back. The HSJ suggest a third of these tests have been sent back so far. Which is certainly one way to interpret 100,000 tests being carried out. Or to put it another way: there’s lies, damned lies, and coronavirus testing targets.

www.spectator.co.uk/article/how-did-matt-hancock-hit-his-100-000-test-target-

You really can’t ignore the fact that whatever their reasoning, the government’s actions have resulted in more deaths (for population) than any other European country, and more than most other countries in the world. We had access to the same science as those countries.

How can you possibly defend the government?

You seek to suggest that there was only one scientific view and therefore the government was right to follow it. But we know, and they know, that there were others - including the views of highly reputable British scientists whom Johnson and Cummings chose not to appoint to Sage - , which ultimately have turned out to be much more reliable. Surely as an absolute minimum a responsible government should have questioned very closely why other countries with a good coronavirus record were acting differently, and should have made absolutely sure that it included on Sage people who could think independently and would not act as Yes men to whatever Cummings leant on them to say.

It is, very obviously, no coincidence whatsoever that the advice the Government has chosen to follow is the advice that follows their own political agenda. The buck for our truly appalling death rate can't stop with anyone other than the government.

Did "the science" tell them to open the Nightingale hospitals without sorting out how they might be staffed?

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/21/nurse-shortage-causes-nightingale-hospital-to-turn-away-patients

www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-nhs-nightingale-hospital-london-intensive-care-nurses-doctors-a9476251.html

@togglethis the only other people I've seen laughing over the pandemic have been the ministers trying to divert attention from their failings. No-one else seems to find it laughable that we have a completely and utterly incompetent government that has cost so many lives.

This isn't like Brexit. Dominic Cummings is trying to weaponise the pandemic as a rehash of Brexit because he thinks that will make people blindly choose sides and dig in. But all the Leavers I know are absolutely appalled at how the government has mishandled the response to the pandemic. Leavers were more likely to live in disadvantaged areas. And those areas have been most affected by Covid19 because they are the areas where people are most likely to have underlying conditions. Perhaps if Boris had realised it was negatively impacting the vote he was relying on, he might have acted sooner.

Did "the science" tell them to screw up communication with the police force and undermine their ability to enforce lockdown?

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/may/27/lockdown-violators-using-cummings-as-excuse-say-police#maincontent

Police say Dominic Cummings controversy will make lockdown impossible to enforce
Senior figures fear that lockdown policing is 'dead in the water' and that the public will rely on the 'Cummings defence' when challenged

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/05/24/revealed-police-spoke-dominic-cummings-father-twice-260-mile/

Coronavirus: Government giving out mixed messages over lockdown, says Met Police Federation
news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-government-giving-out-mixed-messages-over-lockdown-says-met-police-federation-11978825

The reactions of members of Sage to this one are going to be interesting. I suspect they're not going to be too impressed at being cast as the fall guys, and may well make it very clear that the government can't expect them to dance to their tune any longer.

Did "the science" tell Johnson to rewrite history in order to defend his crony Cummings?

Cummings' actions have taken the ‘we' out of keeping to lockdown rules - Stephen Reicher
A sense of shared responsibility has been crucial during the coronavirus crisis. Let’s hope it hasn’t been shattered

•Stephen Reicher is a member of the Sage subcommittee advising on behavioural science

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/26/dominic-cummings-lockdown-rules-coronavirus

And where did I say I read them? @togglethis

I said read the evidence and sage mins and all the scientific advice out there.

Are you confusing me with someone else or putting words into my mouth.

I would advise that the sun is a lot less credible and far more biased than the guardian or times or Financial Times. I don’t know about the mirror as I don’t read it. That’s plainly obvious to anyone with an ounce of critical thinking.

Murdoch serves only himself and he’s picked every pm for decades

Milicentbystander72
Oh and on Corona Virus newscast the SAFE said that Cummings has sometimes attended SAGE along with other advisors but very often the advisors never say anything. 
And very often the advisors aren't worth risking your career over and making a total tit of yourself (unless of course they are the ones pulling the strings - do you really think Cummings had no hand in choosing which bits of advice to cherry pick from the meetings and which bits johnson should choose to ignore? Naive springs to mind).

Slow down. I literally was reporting what the SAGE member had said on a podcast. I didn't say I anything about whether I thought DC was pulling strings or not. Don't put 'naive' connotations on something I didn't say, let alone say I agreed with.

Did "the science" tell them to announce easing with mixed messages encouraging people to hold VE day parties etc?

No 10 battles to regain control of lockdown messaging amid fierce criticism
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/may/07/no-10-scrambles-to-control-amid-fierce-criticism-of-lockdown-mixed-messages

metro.co.uk/2020/05/09/london-pub-slammed-opening-ve-day-despite-lockdown-ban-12679639/

Did "the science" tell them to plan the opening of schools without consulting the people who actually run them?

Coronavirus: Schools safe to reopen, Michael Gove insists
www.halifaxcourier.co.uk/education/calderdale-private-school-defies-government-pressure-reopen-monday-2868567
www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-52697488

School leaders have complained that they were not consulted over the return date, which they say is too soon, or the decision to bring back reception, year 1 and year 6 first.
www.theguardian.com/education/2020/may/13/unions-warn-of-lack-of-understanding-over-english-school-reopenings

Wasn’t laughing about the pandemic for a millisecond @AnneOfTeenFables. I was laughing at you trying to cast the WHO in the role of the good guy when their record is decidedly mixed.

SAGE isn't all the advice? People who knew what they were talking about were trying to get Boris's attention before he buggered off for two weeks to think about divorce and a new baby on the way.

I don't believe "the science" offers one theory and guidance anyway. They'll have offered the information they have and a number of recommended options. The government will have chosen the one they liked.

We now know that the advice on re-opening the schools did not appear in any one of the scenarios modelled and suggested by the science. In fact, science and politics appear to be parting company extraordinarily quickly. Have a look at the strong wording in this from the BMJ, one of our top medical journals.
www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m2102

Where did the government encourage VE Day parties @YounghillKang?

"Instead, England arrives here in a state of utter confusion (doi:10.1136/bmj.m1785). The public’s confidence in the official lockdown advice is shaken. The covid-19 response is short on testing, uncertain on contact tracing, and reliant on unreliable apps (doi:10.1136/bmj.m2085). Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland are not following England’s lead. The UK has the second highest number of covid-19 deaths of any nation and, by some calculations, the most deaths per capita."
I gather the Lancet has similar messages too.

Even the behavioural scientists advising the government said Boris had absolutely trashed all their advice by defending Cummings and pretending the advice had been different all along.
Cummings and Boris should remember that it's not as easy to rewrite history as it is to edit a blog.

@YounghillKang

Yes and Sage papers reveal that they were asked to model nine ways of opening schools and their recommendations were ignored.

The government never even asked them to model the YR Y1 Y6 plan they went with. They chose that plan without any science at all.

Actual sage papers

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/886994/s0257-sage-sub-group-modelling-behavioural-science-relaxing-school-closures-sage30.pdf

Article summing this up

www.theguardian.com/education/2020/may/22/ministers-rejected-school-reopening-plan-recommended-by-sage-experts

"Did "the science" tell them to fudge the testing numbers?"
I can't imagine scientists advising the Govt to do that. I am very disappointed that the Govt have counted tests sent out in their figures as tests for that day. They should include them on the day they are returned.

I am also not happy that different types of test (throat, Nasal) have, reportedly, been counted as two tests. It should be based on how many people have been tested (by whatever method) on any given day.

I can't come to any conclusion other than that the Govt have been deliberately misleading in this respect. Why don't they just say they have capacity for X number of tests but that only Y have been carried out and then analyse the reason and try and encourage more to come forward for testing?

Because it's all for show. Johnson has always been everything about the show. He cannot actually do anything.

Did "the science" cut education so that there are already barely enough teachers to cope?

Did "the science" cut down funding to schools so that many don't have adequate hygiene facilities even outside a health crisis?

"Boris Johnson’s promise to boost funding won’t even return schools to where they were in 2010"
www.theguardian.com/education/2019/oct/08/tories-investing-in-schools-get-real-labour-raised-budgets

www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/savage-tory-cuts-education-hitting-20844584

www.theguardian.com/education/2019/nov/09/most-schools-england-worse-off-next-year-than-2015-study-says

www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/school-funding-cuts-education-budget-austerity-conservatives-teaching-union-a8715776.html

www.naht.org.uk/news-and-opinion/press-room/new-poll-reveals-full-impact-of-school-funding-crisis/

YounghillKang thank you for posting all the links so any MNers that have missed them can read them.