For the shopping washing stay at home panic merchants

[Givenupno]

Interesting article. Especially the graph showing the true figures of your chance of death against your annual risk of am death anyway.

We need to get back to normal- now.

Those who want to stay locked up and crippling the economy would still be free to do so

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52758024?SThisFB&fbclid=IwAR0dtsKAlVWdunp-3dteVmjalUXDWFGHk1L5puuZPuAVQqfp5rWbFACC3lM

Hindsight is 20/20

Yes it’s time to start getting back to normal in a controlled way. It won’t be you doing the controlling.

Hindsight tells us that the restrictions should have started earlier in the UK, like they did here in Germany, and that it's partly because they were so late in the UK that the death figures per million of population are higher than in Italy, which was notoriously overwhelmed.
This idea that it should have been looser in the UK, coming from someone so shy about their whereabouts, seems pretty unlikely to me.

I wash my shopping, any risk no matter how small is still a risk ,i do it to protect my children. Id rather not do it but until they know more about this virus im going to contiue to do it.
Shouldnt bother u if folk do it or not ,focus on your own life choices

• This idea that it should have been looser in the UK, coming from someone so shy about their whereabouts, seems pretty unlikely to me.”

I am not shy about my whereabouts, it’s on numerous other threads.

I love on the Isle of Man but pretty much work in the UK, my TV is full
of Uk news so I am well aware of the situation.

I am genuinely amazed how many people are happy for this situation to continue when the risks are so low!

What are you proposals to get our lives back? Wait for a vaccine that might take years or might never come?

My Mum was told she must shield

No one is told they must shield in the UK, the government guidance here advises that Shielding is for your personal protection. It’s your choice to decide whether to follow the measures we advise

We didn't need hindsight. The UK had all of January, February and half of March to make adequate preparations and implement restrictions to prevent the virus killing more people per capita than any other country. We had plenty of notice that this virus was coming and what would happen. The fact that preparations were inadequate/non-existent is tragic and will have long-lasting repercussions on families. Someone with the luxury to live in a country whose government managed the pandemic better and even managed to get tested months ago should not be telling those of us stuck in a country managed by people who are at best buffoons and at worse downright evil what to do.

The OP lives in the Isle of Man - where all visitors arriving had to isolate for 14 days! If the UK had that restriction, thousands of lives would have been saved. I wish I lived in an area that had the same restrictions as the Isle of Man. Instead I live in a country that allowed hundreds of thousands of people to go skiing in early/mid march to an area of Italy known to have a massive coronavirus outbreak. That allowed thousands of football fans to come from an area of Spain known to have a massive coronavirus outbreak. That still doesn't have mandatory quarantine for those entering the country.
If I was lucky to live in a safe place with proper protection for its citizens, I wouldn't be lecturing those with the blood bad luck to living in a country that refused to implement proper restrictions about how they should be lifting those restrictions.

We are shielding in my house [ well adult child ], no washing of shopping here. DC hasn't gone anywhere due to being shielded, but I shop and will not be washing anything that comes into the house.

Agree or not, but I find it a step to far. DC agrees with me.

However, it's clear that the danger IS very severe for some people and that allowing it to run rampant through the country is not going to help those people

Allowing it to run rampant through the country isn't going to help anyone - we're not just stopping it doing that for the sake of people it will kill. We're doing it for the economy and society as a whole.

Having a low risk of death from the virus won't help the person who can't get treatment for another condition because the hospitals are full of covid patients, or the healthy young person who has lost their job because their employer can't open as no one wants their product while lots of people are ill (even if most will get better). It won't help the tourism or hospitality industries that depend on people wanting to go out and spend money. Only low rates of coronavirus circulating will help them.

Stopping the virus spreading freely has never just been about stopping vulnerable people from dying. It's always been about protecting all of us, and society as a whole.

We desperately need a way of keeping infection rates low without lockdown. Testing, tracking, everyone generally being careful - low post-lockdown starting rates of infection - we need things like that.

Individuals accepting a personal low risk to the extent that they no longer care whether or not they catch the virus will make things worse, not better. We need people to feel safer going out again, but the useful way we're going to do that is by persuading them that there's not much virus out there any more and that testing and tracking will find new clusters quickly. In other words, by all of us working really hard to reduce the chances of new infections - not by deciding that new infections don't really matter because our individual risk is low.

I am not lecturing anyone.

I am saying that the risks don’t justify the restrictions currently imposed. I would happily travel to the Uk tomorrow and meet some of my clients, but current restrictions here and there mean I can’t currently do that.

No one has answered how they propose we get out of this. The NHS wasn’t overwhelmed when people had free reign to go where they wanted and do what they wanted and at some point we need to get back to normality.

I can’t believe how many people are happy to live like they are and suffer the long term economic consequences (nationally, internationally and personally) when the risk is so small and no one has proposed a proper way out.

Do we suggest not allowing any travel for years?

And no I don’t live in the UK. I do however live in the British isles and am a British citizen. We have a reciprocal arrangement with the NHS where I get free treatment there and those of you from the Uk are entitled to free treatment here.

My VAT goes into the same pot yours does even when I spend it locally, and I spend tens of thousandA of pounds in the Uk each year personally, hundreds of thousands to UK suppliers through business.

You titled this very badly. It implies you have a problem with others cleaning habits, rather than getting back to normal. Quite frankly, it has nothing to do with you. FWIW, I will always clean something that Barry the arse scratcher, or Nina the nose picker may have rubbed their hands on. But I’m squeamish and don’t like the thought of consuming every Tom, Dick and Harry’s germs. Especially as I have a high risk child in the household.

Other than that, yes we do need to get to some normality, But in a controlled way, when effective track and trace measures have been introduced.
Starting aggressive and goady posts which are titled to rile people up is not going to result in informative and adult conversations

What are you proposals to get our lives back? Wait for a vaccine that might take years or might never come?
I wouldn't tell anyone in the UK what to do. My advice to anyone here in Germany would be to follow government advice, and try not to worry too much. I was back at the cinema this weekend. When things have calmed down to the same extent in the UK, I'm sure people there will be fine to go back to that sort of thing again, too. No need to get people panicked by suggesting that without a vaccine they're not going to have a life.

OP you do live in the British isles, but you were protected by your regional government with much stricter measures than those of us in the mainland. The quarantine that the Isle of Man implemented protected your island from the island and prevented a much larger outbreak. Your island had much more restrictions than the UK and apparently much better testing also.
Please don't begrudge the mainland the restrictions in place to protect us similarly (even if they were implemented too late).

Please don't begrudge the mainland the restrictions in place to protect us similarly (even if they were implemented too late).

I am not. (Ps - it’s not the mainland, it’s another country)

I am saying the risk is still minimal and questioning why people are still happy to live in lockdown, not just in the UK but all over. Also asking how people propose we get back to normal and if they are happy to live like this forever since the virus isn’t going anywhere anytime soon.

So far people have just bashed me for living somewhere with different restrictions. That’s not my fault and my opinion would be no different if I lived in the UK. Like millions of others I just want to get back to normality and earning a living and having agreed with original lockdowns to slow the spread can’t see how it’s sustainable or needed now that infections are lowering and we are all going to get it anyway.

I would happily travel back to central London tomorrow to resume my business.

I would have gone with the Swedish model from day one but appear to be in the minority.

Chances are a year from now they will be right back to normal and despite an initial high death rate they will be no worse off long term as those who are going to get it and suffer are going to get it and suffer anyway. All the countries with lockdown are doing is delaying the inevitable

Chances are a year from now they will be right back to normal and despite an initial high death rate they will be no worse off long term as those who are going to get it and suffer are going to get it and suffer anyway.
Maybe. But they were able not to lockdown, as they knew their hospitals would be able to cope. Whereas the UK has struggled despite the lockdown. Without it, the NHS would no doubt have been overwhelmed and the mortality rate considerably higher.

What are you proposing, though? Mutiny? :) Whether or not people wash their shopping is not going to change the speed at which the restrictions are lifted.

The UK has the world's highest death rate per head of population. Arguably our restrictions were/are not enough. There is still plenty of community transmission. My relative who works in a hospital personally knows 2 doctors who died unnecessarily from this - good nice talented people who put themselves at risk to treat patients. Other people will have loved ones who died unnecessarily. Other countries with much lower death rates and community transmission rates are relaxing lockdown now. Maybe the UK should wait until our levels of the virus are comparable before relaxing lockdown. Our outbreak was much worse and is still not as far past the peak as other countries.

Also asking how people propose we get back to normal and if they are happy to live like this forever since the virus isn’t going anywhere anytime soon.
As I said before, this is panic-mongering.
Once the number of cases has fallen low enough, the restrictions will be loosened. The UK has already set out a roadmap of kinds for that too, right? Try to be patient, follow the guidelines and before you know it, the number of cases will have fallen low enough for travel to resume again. There will be localised shutdowns again if the figures rise, but if we all follow instructions rather than going mad and rushing out claiming that we can't live without hugging all our friends, things will gradually go back to something close to normal.

What are you proposing, though?

Personally. I would massively reduce restrictions and see what happens. I think those who want to shield, be cautious would continue to do so until they saw it was safe (or not) the rest of us could get back to work, back to socialising and back to generating tax to keep the NHS going.

I would review daily, and if needed reimpose restrictions where necessary.

I honestly think many more people than realise have already been infected and that we wouldn’t see much more of a spike than we did in March/April.

To me it’s a better option than letting people go crazy stuck at home and lose their livelihood and homes.

It’s sweeping through Mexico and places at the moment, we can’t lockdown and suffer the long term economic impacts forever. Give people the choice how they live their lives and IF the NHS genuinely becomes inundated then take a step back again.

In fact, one difference between the UK and Italy/Spain/France is the underreporting of how bad the coronavirus death rate in the UK is. The lack of reporting of the scale of the deaths and how badly we managed it compared to other countries has put many people in a false sense of security. The TV news is just full of stories of positive fundraising stories and feel-good items. The reality in hospitals and care homes is that the UK has the worst death rate in the entire world (per head of population) and there are still areas of the country where the R rate is above 1, meaning that the virus is getting worse.
The restrictions will be able to be lifted when the R rate is below 1 everywhere (or in certain areas where it is below 1, but the government are against that idea).

I didn't mean "what would you propose if you were Boris Johnson", but rather what would you suggest us normal people should do, apart from waiting patiently for things to get better?

Spent years living with a doctor who specialised in public health and disease transmission, so been washing down things like milk cartons for a long time. It seems a perfectly reasonable thing to do, but since it recently became clear that a number of people have only just learnt how to wash their hands properly, can see why so many find anything additional hard!

Washing shopping would be a step too far for me, but I don't understand why supermarkets don't insist everyone entering the shop uses hand sanitiser. Our local farm shop does and it seems a good idea

How would it help? I wash my hands before I go shopping, I wash them when I get back, and I wash my hands after I have put things away.

Hand sanitiser kills bacteria, not viruses, unless it has the right amount of alcohol, and I don't actually want bacteria being killed indiscriminately. Otherwise we'll have an even greater problem of antibacterial resistance.

It's true washing shopping doesn't affect anyone else. I don't think it is healthy thinking though. And if I get a parcel I want what's in it now, not in 3/7/14 days' time - whenever some of you deem it to be safe. You can't order everything you need 14 days before you need it, eg if you discover you haven't got printer ink (which was the last thing I ordered online).

The science behind this is archaic. The germ phobia of the last century has done us more harm than good. If you want to live well in this world you need to be sharing as many “germs” as you can!
Some of you need to do some googling about the germ theory, gut health, bacteria etc. Obviously those of you who are completely neurotic will pounce on this but if you’re scared and you’re mind is open to new science and discoveries, reading up on this may help calm you down.

Some of us know the difference between germs and viruses...

In fact, one difference between the UK and Italy/Spain/France is the underreporting of how bad the coronavirus death rate in the UK is

What is this based on? You think maxi I, Bangladesh, Cambodia etc are reporting more accurately?

And why are people saying the Uk has the high test death treats per head of population in the world? It doesn’t - even assuming other countries are reporting accurately (China? India? Ethiopia?)