I don’t want the lockdown to be lifted yet

[Scousebird26]

Apologies if this thread has been done before, I’ve not seen it.

But am I in a minority for not wanting lockdown to end? I think it’s far too soon, and we have come to far too risk a second wave of it when there is still hundreds dying every day in hospital.

What are your thoughts on what Borris next step will be?

If you're generally healthy, even if you're old, chances are you'll recover if you get covid. You might not even feel very ill at all. It is a nasty illness that kills people, but so is flu, so is meningitis, so is cancer.

Stopping the whole economy for a virus is like jumping off a cliff before being pushed. Instead of having the possible effect of the virus, you're having the definite effect of flushing the economy down the toilet.

So you may or may not get covid. Even if you do get it, you have a very very high chance of being fine.

But you will NOT be fine from lockdown. You will suffer because of it. Your children, if you have any, will suffer from it, probably their entire lives. That is guaranteed.

It is complete and utter fucking madness.

Why are people not only accepting this, but actually asking for more???

Because 5% may not seem like a lot, but it is in fact a very large number of individual people. Most of us don't want to be in that number. We'll recover from the hit to the economy. Death is permanent.

I boggle at the utter naivite of people who think they'll be fine after lockdown, that it won't affect them.

It absolutely, definitely will affect you. Because you will be living in a country that can't pay for anything, that owes enormous sums of money. If you think the NHS was in trouble before lockdown, wait till 2021. Then you'll see what a decimated health service looks like. No money, no healthcare. That's how it works.

Most of us don't want to be in that number. We'll recover from the hit to the economy

I assume you mean you personally , when you say “we will recover from the hit to the economy” because hundreds of thousands, if not millions won’t, it causes widespread death and destruction.

But that’s ok isn’t it, as long as you’re alright?

So that’s fine, quit your job stay home, stop insisting everyone else should too.

Totally with you OP. It’s increasingly clear that we don’t understand this virus properly. Doctors are scratching their heads at aspects of it. We don’t know the long term side effects - increasingly there are people showing up with blood clots, kidney issues, lung scarring, heart inflammation. Many who recover are taking 6 weeks plus to do so. People are randomly dying and doctors don’t fully understand how the virus has killed them - is it clotting? Lack of oxygen? Inflammation? Liquid in the lungs! Organs shutting down? All of the above?
Do we seriously think that the world has shut down over a bug that makes you feel uncomfortable for a few weeks and that’s it?
30,000 people have died (at least) and the estimate is that 3-4% of the UK population have had it so far. You do the maths for how many deaths we are looking at to get to the 70-80% herd immunity.
You can’t bring any of those people back.
Those who talk about suicides and mental health - are we ever looking at that number of suicides? No way. And what do you think it does for children’s’ mental health when they start losing their parents, grandparents, siblings? There was a horrible article in the Guardian about a 7 year old who lost his mother and grandmother and who asked his father “who’s next, daddy, you or I?”
Re cancer treatment - if there’s a second wave, will there be any NHS capacity to deal with anything except COVID? Do we think a lot of cancer, stroke, cardiac, mental health treatment were happening in a Spain and Italy last month? I think not!

Announcement will be as reported, primary schools open 1st June. Coming over the month of June many businesses will be back to work, masks will be advised. All smaller retail shops open, providing they can maintain social distancing. Travel allowed 20 miles from home. Bars and restaurants will remain closed.
Advice around vulnerable and shielded persons clarified around reminding people that it is only the extremely vulnerable who are to shield at home, members of their household, as now, need not to.

The country was bankrupt after the Second World War, yet somehow managed to actually fund for the first time a health service ....

Once the virus hit and we were in a pandemic, major economic hit was unavoidable .

The lockdown actually helps protect the economy as well as people's health as it minises the impact of the pandemic on society and keeps things basically running rather than totally collapsing.

Yes some people are much more negatively affected than others and that's not easy

It can't go one until vaccine , a measured exit with restrictions and controls in place is possible once the numbers being admitted to hospital are low enough

This will protect more jobs and futures than an uncontrolled pandemic sweeping the nation

@EarlGreywithLemon

I do understand where you’re coming from but realistically we are not going to properly understand the virus properly for many months, possibly years. The reality is that the lockdown will have to end before we have that understanding. We aren’t going to be significantly further forward in 2 or 3 weeks.

I’m not a proponent of ending lockdown immediately because we need the track and trace system to work well to give us maximum freedom once lockdown ends and it won’t work well with cases still being high. If a few more weeks brings cases down low enough then I think that’s probably worth it. Beyond that I think we are going to have to start getting things up and running again.

Why are people not only accepting this, but actually asking for more???

They miss the jackboot?

But how long are people suggesting we should be in lockdown for? Another 3 weeks I would accept but after that.....
We cannot stay on lockdown until the virus is gone simple as. So at some point we have to get moving again and work out the best ways to manage it whilst also keeping the country going and letting people live a little. Some people sound like they genuinely think we should hide away until it’s gone. That could be years if ever.
The op makes it sound like Boris is going to just announce the end of lockdown this week - clearly this is not going to happen and I can’t imagine anyone thinks that. He will be announcing some kind of phased plan by which lockdown is released over the coming months which is what needs to happen so that we can work our how best society can function alongside corona virus. To say ‘I don’t want to lockdown to end’ is ridiculous because we can all clearly see that there will be restrictions on our lives for some time to come. They can’t maintain restrictions to this degree though.

People can impose their own personal lockdown if they're worried. Let the rest of us get on with living our lives.

Yep, quite soon we need to move to an ‘optional lockdown’. Many, many of us are low risk including children. We can’t just stay locked away with all the consequences that entails.

The lockdown actually helps protect the economy as well as people's health as it minises the impact of the pandemic on society and keeps things basically running rather than totally collapsing.

I genuinely don't understand this. The explanation I've seen is that if people got ill they wouldn't be able to work and that would cause problems. But with the lockdown people can't work anyway, so instead of there being a possibility of people not working due to illness, people definitely can't work because they're not allowed to. Things are not 'basically running' in many sectors, they're completely dead and reviving dead businesses is far far harder than ramping a business up to full capacity having been running at low capacity for a while.

Yes some people are much more negatively affected than others and that's not easy
Did you mean this to sound so callous? So that you have a somewhat lower chance of getting an illness that's very unlikely to kill you, others will die from totally avoidable causes. Is that really worth it?

It can't go one until vaccine , a measured exit with restrictions and controls in place is possible once the numbers being admitted to hospital are low enough
Healthcare staff that should be treating people with other illnesses are sitting around doing nothing. How long more does that have to go on before the mythical 'low enough' level?

This will protect more jobs and futures than an uncontrolled pandemic sweeping the nation
Total bollocks. There is evidence that covid was in Italy in late November. It was spreading for months with no controls before everyone freaked out and no one even noticed until China said something. Sweden has restrictions but no lockdown and is coping fine and their economy is in far better shape than everyone else's. Lockdown is extreme and unnecessary.

On the one hand....
We will not have a vaccine in the next few months.

Nothing has changed in the treatment of Covid

When we restart to mingle with others there will be another peak in hospital admissions - and deaths - 2-4 weeks later.

On the other...
We cannot stay in lockdown forever.

The longer we stay in lockdown (we are REAAALLLLLY not in lockdown in the UK by the way), the more the economy, businesses, and thereby people, both now and for many, many years to come - will suffer. Financially, mental health wise, socially, physical health (with people not being screened etc).

It is a fine balance and seemingly between a rock and a hard place. I do not envy those in power.

I would like the lockdown to be lifted a little - allowing friends/family to be together in some way . I feel if this doesn't happen then people will start making up their own rules which could be worse

@ Lynda 07 I've had a message appear from AVG a couple of times today about the pop-up you mention, saying I've been protected from it - I'm very glad I splashed out on their paid-for package (shame it doesn't work on physical viruses though!)

I totally appreciate how it is affecting the economy, people’s mental health etc etc I am not naive, and I would love nothing more than to go back to work and for my son to go to nursery safely.

I don’t actually know how the government will do it as a pp said it is going to affect us and we can’t stay like this forever and I realise we will have to start getting some normality back. I just think when the figures are still in their hundreds I would rather not have the lock down lifted.

You have to consider who is telling us to stay inside it is not just the government it is the NHS staff themselves advising that we don't let this spread because they first hand have seen the severity of the situation.Yes the economy is ruined but many lives can be saved from lockdown

I’m sorry but it’s going to be eased, in some way. They won’t open everything back up at once it will be phased.

The economy needs it lifting
People’s mental health needs it lifting
People need to see family ( even if it’s only allowed outside) not seeing loved ones isn’t natural

The virus isn’t going away and we can’t stay in this lockdown situation forever.

IF you don’t wish to leave you home, then don’t. People aren’t going to come and force you out to socialise.

Working from home when possible will be encouraged for a while yet I think.

The daily carbuncle I agree with a lot of what you say. The economic consequences are huge and affect everyone. We have been right to lock down but we have to find a way out of it asap and learn to live with the virus.

I'm also very worried about the mental affects of the lockdown continuing for too long. It's not healthy that so many people are frightened to go out and that's why they don't want it to be over. We can't live in a bubble.

You can choose to remain in lockdown if you want to, but the rest of us need to start adapting to living alongside the virus. The lower risk and healthy need to get the economy moving again.

Of course we will have to lift the lockdown before a vaccine. But it needs to be done on the basis of keeping the levels as low as possible, not on a “we’ll all get it”, “it’s just a bug”, herd immunity basis.
Every week that goes by leads to better understanding and treatment. For instance, we now know that patients do better if they’re brought into hospital sooner and given oxygen; that many are hypoxic but don’t show the symptoms, that ventilators don’t have great outcomes, and CPAP works better for many. Anti blood clotting treatments could be introduced soon if that’s confirmed to be an issue. Antivirals and antiretrovirals are being trialled. And yes, I think there’s a good chance of a vaccine widely available in the UK by the end of the year. Sarah Gilbert of the Oxford team had 80% confidence that it would work - she’s a scientist and they’re not known for throwing big numbers around willy nilly. We’ll know by June if it works and they’re planning on the first few million doses in September. What I’m saying is that it’s worth making sure as few of us getting it as possible, and as late as possible.
Before lockdown is eased, we’ll need a proper track and trace and quarantine system, lots of testing, and we might impose further lockdowns if necessary.
As to how the economy will cope - We’ll print out more money, and interest rates will be kept down to inflate the debt away. That’s what we and most countries in the world are and will continue to do. It’s not like everyone else is roaring ahead economically and the UK is being left behind. We’re all pretty much in the same boat.

@Scousebird26 can I ask what you circumstances are re job, dc etc?

@earlgreywithlemon

I don’t disagree with most of your second post. Your first post read to me that you were suggesting we couldn’t lift the lockdown until we had fully understood the long term effects of the virus which wouldn’t be possible.

Whilst I think the 5 tests the government have set out are pretty woolly, it is quite clear I think that numbers will need to be lower that they are now before the lockdown is released.

I’m also confident on the vaccine. Lots of positivity coming out of Oxford which is great.

I very much agree with much of what TheDailyCarbuncle has said. We need to have a safe and phased exit from this lockdown, but it needs to start happening very soon