I don’t want the lockdown to be lifted yet

[Scousebird26]

Apologies if this thread has been done before, I’ve not seen it.

But am I in a minority for not wanting lockdown to end? I think it’s far too soon, and we have come to far too risk a second wave of it when there is still hundreds dying every day in hospital.

What are your thoughts on what Borris next step will be?

That's an absolutely brilliant post @duffeldaisy (I'm a night owl but was about to go to bed when I saw it).

I think we should have hope. It's reassuring to see polls showing the majority of the public understands contagion and the economic consequences, and doesn't want a premature end to lockdown.

It's also relatively easy to improve the situation . Get more PPE, get hold of the antiviral drugs that can help in early stages, give precautionary antibiotics, oxygen as soon as required, anti-inflammatory drugs for severe immune response. Other poorer countries have managed it. It can't be too difficult or need us to wait that long.

Germany (and probably other countries) was giving early treatment at home for some patients. Antibiotics, and some of the antivirals can be taken at home (with doctor checks either by phone or if necessary in person). It reduces the demand on hospital beds.

@ToffeeYoghurt Thanks. That makes me feel better. You’re right. In other stats, the majority of the public are wary about lifting lockdown too fast. It was just seeing the stats here that got me panicking.

Even if there is a sudden “back to normal”, if what looks somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2 of the country are currently managing to work from home, then perhaps people themselves will manage to retain some kind of distancing, whatever the government does.

And like you say, treatments are developing all the time. That’s partly why I’m so worried about the lifting. A friend has lost her Dad to it, and I just think for the sake of waiting a short while longer, more lives could be saved, and so lifting bans at the right time could mean so many people not losing loved ones. I still haven’t recovered properly from the death of someone v close a few years back - and the thought of losing anyone else prematurely, especially unnecessarily, is unbearable.
Each day that passes does make surviving this illness more likely, so will focus on that! Thanks again.

Problem is will there ever be a right time to lift lockdown? The virus isn’t going anywhere and at some stage we need measures to live with it as we can’t hide from it until vaccine available, somehow we have to get back out there

The problem is the UK didn't lockdown, 2 weeks ago I had to go to the supermarket, so did roughly another 150 people in the same supermarket with me.

Yes, its not been great, but its not been a proper lockdown, for christ sake Loose woman came back on TV today and while I am fully supportive of the fact that they may have put extra people in work (or they could be same back stage team that do this morning) how is that fair?

I think it will make little difference now in lifting it slightly. People are thinking fuck it anyway, if the government had been clearer to begin with, people might be more on side with their plans, Boris Johnson fucked up and continues to and I swear he is within a breathe inch of utter something about detergent.

I don't think schools should be going back and I think that is going to be a complicated process between the government, councils, headteachers, teachers, other school staff and parents, especially because once the government open they will expect children back otherwise fining will come back in (it was in one of the daily briefings)

I do think more business should start to being open, but again procedures should be put in place and there should be something somewhere to be able to operate this, a bit like traffic wardens

I agree, sobeyond, it’s been a shambles from the beginning

ha! "It's only Lockdown if everyone else is deprived of going out but of course I still need to go out. That's the problem, UK lockdown wasn't strict enough to stop all those other people going to supermarket when I wanted to go to supermarket"

I am not buying into the story that lots of people were desperate for treatment and couldn't get it, either. Or that there was some magic treatment that would have saved people but was denied. I do wish the govt would seize these myths and present the evidence to squash them early rather than later.

It’s herd immunity through the back foot, and I really think it’s too early. I can’t contemplate sending my kids in. I will of course be overruled by DH but am so unhappy about it. Teachers don’t have PPE, young children cannot socially distance at all and i fear there’s going to be a terrible second wave almost straight away

It's only Lockdown if everyone else is deprived of going out but of course I still need to go out. That's the problem, UK lockdown wasn't strict enough to stop all those other people going to supermarket when I wanted to go to supermarket

No because there was so many people in the same supermarket. Of course people are going to have to go to the supermarket, but what fucking point is there in social distancing when you have so many people in such a confined space, basically wasting, what my family and many other have done in sitting at home for fucking 4 weeks, being forced to go to the supermarket because we can't get a delivery slot and then being slammed together, that is my fucking point, not the fuck that other people should go without

There is evidence to suggest that we need to get moving a gain to prepare for an inevitable second wave in winter.

It frustrates me when I o hear about herd immunity because there is no evidence at all that there is any immunity to it at all.

There are many virus's that we cannot get immunity too.

I can’t wait for lock down to be lifted.

I’m a single mum to toddler twins and I am going out of my mind on my own with no help from my parents. If some people want to choose to isolate themselves until 2025 then they can knock themselves out!

If they announce another three weeks then I’m not sticking to it. My MH is down the pan and I’m exhausted. Waiting another three weeks isn’t going to make the chances of my family and I catching Covid any smaller.

@ToffeeYoghurt, @duffeldaisy, @Nearlyalmost50 thank you all, you give me hope that people will see sense on this.
I agree with all your posts. I’m also terrified of what will happen if we lift too soon. I also agree it’s the pandemic that is squeezing our economy, not the lockdown. I think people find it easier to blame the lockdown and think that as soon as it’s lifted everything will just be hunky dory again.
I might be wrong, but my understanding is that China was routinely giving antivirals and antiretrovirals for this. I don’t understand why we are not. And what about looking into blood thinners for the potential clotting issues? I wish the daily press conferences gave updates on things like this rather than waffling on about sunny pastures.

The U.K. is doing one of the largest drug treatment trials in the world. There is a risk of making the illness worse if you just give people drugs willy nilly. Or that the side effects are worse than the virus.

Have you watched the Chris Whitty Gresham college lecture? I found that very informative.

@JustinMyJustin I don't blame you for feeling like that, being a single parent to twin toddlers must be difficult at the best of times nevermind now. I don't know what to say without sounding patronising but you're a superwoman!

If your parents have also been isolating then I kind of agree that the risk is so small that the benefit to your MH is worth it. The other side of the coin being not everyone is smart enough to effectively risk assess like that and will take unnecessary risks and create a larger spread (that's obviously not your problem!).

i feel like I can do 3 more weeks at a push, it'll be hard as I'm hanging on by a thread now, but can totally understand why some don't feel like they can do it anymore but also we all need the numbers to go down and not completely yank the global economy. No idea what the answer is, there isn't a solution that suits everyone.

Sunshinegirl Not many side effects worse than death. Almost all the trial drugs aren't new. They're used for other conditions and their side effects are already known.

When faced with the extraordinary circumstances of a pandemic other countries didn't stand by and let 30,000 plus die without trying to save lives. They're already using many of the drugs off licence. Even bog standard antivirals like tamiflu have shown some success in reducing the severity in some patients. If given early but it always makes sense to treat anything earlier rather than later.

The drugs trials are focusing mostly on already seriously ill patients. All the evidence so far suggests many of these drugs are more successful when given early.

I agree completely @EarlGreywithLemon
I think some countries might be giving blood thinners. Or that's possibly one of the effects of some of the trial drugs. I'm sure I read something about that.
I wonder whether aspirin might help?

I don't understand why the government isn't trying to procure these drugs and more PPE. This is the safe way out of lockdown. They could've spent the past couple of months doing this.

Honestly @ToffeeYoghurt are you a doctor or consultant epidemiologist? No? Me neither, so probably best to listen to those that are.

So who do we give the tamiflu to then? Everyone who reckons they’ve got it on the off chance? What if it doesn’t make any difference? What if in some cases it makes things worse? What if it kills some people and we’re still not sure if it’s making any difference? Do you just give it out? Or do you check what’s happening with people who take it? Who do you compare those people to?

Chris Whitty has said very clearly that it is important to ensure that the drugs you are giving people are safe. I reckon he probably knows more about this than me. Rushing around pumping any old combination of things into people with no idea what works, what doesn’t and what makes things worse is a sure fire way to learn nothing fast and possibly kill a few people in the process.

This government are a total shit show and I wouldn’t trust them to run a bath but I don’t think all the doctors in the U.K. are sat around looking at each other thinking “ooh, do you think maybe we should try some blood thinners?”

The U.K. is actually doing massive trials of drugs which means loads of patients are receiving various treatments all across the country. Hopefully we will know what actually works as a result fairly soon.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/04/21/health/hydroxychloroquine-veterans-study/index.html

Nothing to stop you imposing your own lockdown if you want to

Not that I'm claiming to be a doctor but you don't know who I am Sunshine girl or what experience I might or might not have. How can you confidently claim otherwise?

You're right. We should listen to the experts. Worldwide. Back in January and February our government's policy seemed based on the bizarre notion that different scientific advice applied to the UK. It didn't.

When someone's in hospital seriously ill with a deadly disease (that's already killed over 30,000 at least in the UK) there's little to lose by trying an already known drug.

That's what many doctors and governments around the world decided to do. Perhaps one reason why they have less deaths than us.

The drugs, with a few exceptions, are NOT new. We know the side effects. Patients are of course free to refuse treatment.

The decision over treatment protocol for Covid (or lack of it) isn't down to our doctors. It's the government who makes this decision.

If you'd read my post properly you'd see I didn't suggest necessarily giving tamiflu nor did I say it's a panacea. I simply reported a fact.

Some countries are giving it to some patients with some success in reducing the chances of the disease progressing to a serious stage.

It's not the best of the options in any event. Some of the other drugs have seemed more successful. I was merely pointing out that one of the reasons we have over 30,000 deaths, more than anywhere but America (who has a far larger population) is because unlike other countries we aren't trying to treat patients early. Preventative treatment to prevent a serious case.

It doesn't always help but it's better than countless deaths.

That drugs trial you linked was an incomplete trial. And as I keep saying the drugs tend to help when given at early stages. Before it reaches the stage of needing hospital.

Blood thinners to help with the blood clots caused by Covid in some patients? I don't know if they're trying them. Here or elsewhere. Presumably they've considered it.

Even if lockdown Is lifted doesnt mean you suddenly need to go out again you can continue practicing the same safety measures you are now for as long as you want

Just amazes me how many people could sort it all out and do it a whole lot better than the people who are actually on the ground dealing with it day in and day out.

I’m no fan of this government and I’ve got zero time for Boris Johnson but I’m reasonably confident we’ve got a few decent doctors and scientists out there and if random people on the internet can think of something that might help I’m pretty confident that they will have thought about it too.

You’re right, I have no idea who you are as you have no idea who I am. Sort of the way it works on an anonymous Internet forum. If you’ve got some sort of expertise or inside knowledge that means your opinion should be taken more seriously than that of others then by all means say so. If you don’t I’ll assume you know about as much as the rest of us (ie not as much as the people whose job this actually is).

I think the work the medical and scientific community have already done on this is astounding. The RECOVERY trial is an unprecedented piece of work, with more patients enrolled than in any other trial anywhere in the world. It gives us a real chance of getting actual answers quickly.

Plenty of drugs are licensed and have known side effects that’s true, it doesn’t mean they won’t do more harm than good in certain circumstances. Just because a drug is licensed doesn’t mean it’s always safe for everyone regardless so you might as well give it a go. That would be particularly true of those in the early stages of this illness as the vast majority of those people will recover with no need for any intervention.

"The reason our death rate is one of the highest in the world is because we're not treating people. They're being left to die at home or admitted only at a stage when survival is less likely".
This

Lifting the lockdown does not mean every thing will go back to how it was before this. We will still have restrictions.

As a country we can not afford to keep paying furlough money, so if it is extended the amount will be cut. Banks and financial companies won't necessary extend payment holidays on loans and mortgages. So the government will need to get the economy going.

Companies are already making redundancies, workers who don't want to go back to work will lose their jobs because they have plenty of people who will take them.

We all have to make the choice that is best for our families.

I never claimed to know what you did for a job Sunshine.

But you do rather come across (to me) as a government spin doctor. Obviously that's just my own individual interpretation. It's he way you write. Perhaps you should take that as a compliment and you should apply for a job in that area.

Agree Clutterbugs
We need to ease lockdown. But not at all costs. We need to do it when it's safe to do so - in terms of lives and economically.

Which is why we should use the next three weeks to do what we should have one or two months ago.

Get hold of more PPE (to prevent more of our doctors and nurses dying), get accurate tests, masks for the public, get the drugs and equipment to provide (early) treatment. Then we should be able to start more safely easing lockdown.