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I don’t want the lockdown to be lifted yet

148 replies

Scousebird26 · 04/05/2020 10:58

Apologies if this thread has been done before, I’ve not seen it.

But am I in a minority for not wanting lockdown to end? I think it’s far too soon, and we have come to far too risk a second wave of it when there is still hundreds dying every day in hospital.

What are your thoughts on what Borris next step will be?

OP posts:
Sweetheart1313 · 04/05/2020 20:59

@TheDailyCarbuncle I agree with everything you’ve said, 100%. And well done for saying it, on here a lot of people will slap you down for even suggesting that lockdown should be lifted in the next few days/weeks/months.

YeOldeTrout · 04/05/2020 22:32

I never wanted lockdown at all so I guess we all get something we didn't want.

25% of UK workforce salaries are now being paid directly by the govt. 25%!! The real figure should probably be about 6%. Astounding.

Gobbolinocat · 04/05/2020 23:33

I'm in the middle.

Winter scares me.
I wouldn't want to be dealing with this on top of other problems in winter although I guess these extra hospitals would be kept open or on hold wouldn't they?

Part of me wants people with small dc to be Able to choose and part of me wants things back to normal.
It's the lack of proper science info that's worrying. I'd rather try and squash it now however in good weather, than be battling this in a crappy UK winter!

I'm happy for things to be cautiously eased.

But again... Things like no proper testing, no masks... Make me feel less sure.

LilacTree1 · 04/05/2020 23:48

OP I don’t exactly know what you mean by ending of lockdown but I will be astonished if there’s even any tiny easing before
June.

ToffeeYoghurt · 04/05/2020 23:57

I understand completely OP.

Other countries who are easing their (proper) lockdowns have taken the very simple and easy measures of treating their patients. Early treatment has a relatively decent chance of survival. Antivirals, precautionary antibiotics to prevent secondary inflections, oxygen as soon as it's needed. Also more testing and contract tracing.

Our government is instead leaving patients to die at home or only admitted to hospital at a stage where survival is less likely.

If we followed suit of other countries and treated early we'd likely be able to look at safely easing lockdown. Some of these countries have smaller economies than us. If they're able to manage getting enough PPE for staff and the drugs we should be able to.

People not going to hospital for heart attacks and strokes (both can be caused by Covid btw) aren't frightened by the government's ever changing messages. They have brains and realise there's a highly contagious deadly virus around. They're faced with choosing between two bad options. That's because of the pandemic. It would be infinitely worse without lockdown.

Today a musician, one of the stranglers, died from Covid. He caught it in hospital.

People should still go if it's an emergency as precautions are being taken as best they can and early treatment for anything helps your chances of survival. It's also far safer to go now then when lockdown ends. But they also need to think about what happens if lockdown ended before the cases have reduced.

How do people think patients will get care if Covid spreads throughout the hospital to patients and staff alike?

There is a solution. A fairly simple one. It's no miracle but it would go a long way towards mitigating the damage caused by the pandemic. In terms of lives and the economy.

All we need to do is get enough PPE and drugs and oxygen and start treating patients early. Like I've said other countries have managed this. It's clearly not too difficult.

PeppersYellow · 05/05/2020 00:06

I'd prefer to wait until a vaccine is available even though that's a way off yet.

ToffeeYoghurt · 05/05/2020 00:13

We don't even need to wait for a vaccine.

Other countries have successfully reduced their death rates with early treatment. Antivirals, precautionary antibiotics to avoid secondary infections, oxygen as soon as it's required. Oh and enough PPE for HCP who are at increased risk due to high viral loads.

The reason our death rate is one of the highest in the world is because we're not treating people. They're being left to die at home or admitted only at a stage when survival is less likely.

It doesn't have to be like this. We can't unfortunately go back and save the lives of those already lost but we can take action now to avoid countless more avoidable deaths. We could start giving patients timely treatment.

Nat6999 · 05/05/2020 00:17

I've a friend in Spain, their lockdown was a lot stronger than ours, they weren't allowed out for exercise & the laws of lockdown were a lot stricter, no woolly you can go out to do the shopping, then go out again to the doctor's then again later to exercise. If you couldn't produce a receipt for your shopping or prove you had an appointment, you got fined, they have been locked down a lot longer than us, from today they are allowed out early morning & in the evening to exercise, but all other lockdown conditions still stand, we have only been locked down 6 weeks & haven't had our second peak yet, it is foolish to be thinking about ending the lockdown yet, maybe in three weeks, but not now.

ToffeeYoghurt · 05/05/2020 00:21

It's exactly as Nat6999 says.
Are they treating patients in Spain? By treating I mean treating in early stages when there's a reasonable chance of survival, and giving drugs that can help like antivirals and sometimes immunosuppressants?

TinRoofRusty · 05/05/2020 00:25

Stay in then. Some of us would like to see our families, go to back to work, etc. The end of this can't come soon enough.

Mikki2019 · 05/05/2020 00:27

we have destroyed our economy and are under house arrest for a virus that has a fatal rate of 0.01 %

Madness

Mikki2019 · 05/05/2020 00:28

Fatality rate

Lynda07 · 05/05/2020 00:34

Nat6666, I agree with you, it's far too early. I do understand people are anxious to get back to normal for all sorts of reasons but at the moment there are those who have serious illnesses who cannot access treatment, including sick children plus women with difficult pregnancies; the mental health services are far from up to scratch at the best of times and pretty dreadful right now.

If lockdown stops there will be more coronavirus cases burdening an already overstretched health service. We just can't risk it, hard though it is. If we stay as we are (and selfish people don't break our already quite flimsy rules out of protest), we could be back to square one in no time.

I too know someone in Spain and strict lockdown has been working well for them.

PastMyBestBeforeDate · 05/05/2020 00:39

@Baaaahhhhh I wonder if this is the second wave too.

I am very confused about people like me who were told to shield until the end of June. How does that square with things like schools reopening? Really not sure how that's going to work.

TinRoofRusty · 05/05/2020 00:40

Speak for yourselves, because the only 'we' in this are those who make the decisions for the country as a whole, and thankfully it seems like some sense is going to be applied to this to ease this ridiculous house arrest.

ToffeeYoghurt · 05/05/2020 00:45

Would you say that to the families including children of the approx 30,000 least dead (including doctors and nurses) from this virus Mikki?
Bearing in mind the numbers would be much higher without lockdown. Our death rate for this time of year is significantly higher. What do you think a no lockdown unchecked Covid would do to the economy?

Would you say that to the groups who are being disproportionately affected? The BAME community? People over 50? The very many people with underlying conditions? Men?

I presume you aren't in the UK. We're not under house arrest here. We can go out to the shops, to exercise, to pick up takeaways and coffee, pop to the DIY store, provide care to the vulnerable. We're not living the lives of the permanently housebound.

The economy isn't damaged by the lockdown (which mitigates the damage). It's caused by the pandemic.

You also need to remember it's not just about dying. Many people including lots of posters on MN are ill for weeks on end. They're not well enough to work. And we don't yet know about potential long-term effects.

How does the economy continue as normal with loads of staff all off sick at the same time for an extended period? Who do you think looks after you when the nurses, doctors, and other HCP are off sick (or dead) for extended periods?

What about the economic disruption of stop, start, stop, start?

We all want lockdown to end. We can't magic Covid away but how about we ask the government to start treating patients who have it and provide enough PPE? That would get us some way towards a safer easing of lockdown. Safer for the economy as much as lives.

DamnYankee · 05/05/2020 00:45

Why are people not only accepting this, but actually asking for more?

Because people are scared and they don't trust other people to weigh the costs and benefits and make a sensible decision. They are probably quite anxious themselves about re-entering society post-Covid. If there are stringent rules and widespread closures, they don't have to push themselves.
Completely understandable. However, I think a lot of people are going to have to fight through their Covid-acquired agrophobia.

ToffeeYoghurt · 05/05/2020 00:50

Where are you TinRoofRusty?

We're not under house arrest in the UK. I know some countries, mostly those with lower death rates than us, have stricter lockdowns. I presume you live in one of them.

I bet you're glad you're not in the UK. Patients here are being left to die at home or only admitted to hospital at a stage when survival is less likely. If you live in another country you should be reassured to know it's likely you'll be given early treatment if you catch Covid.

DamnYankee · 05/05/2020 00:54

There will be a spike as people transition back. We are moving at a snail's pace, but at least we're moving. And people are really doing their best at social distancing in our community.

Admittedly, there are always a few bad apples. Can't be bothered.

However, we are opening testing centers in every county in our state. As that happens, positive cases will increase. Our media will have a field day with that.Confused

Just praying to God (and I'm not a big prayer) the officials understand this and won't try to put the horse back into the barn. 'Cause they won't be able to.

Nearlyalmost50 · 05/05/2020 01:12

ToffeeYoghurt I agree completely, the evidence is stacking up that in their desperation not to overload the NHS, there was a tacit or explicit (unclear) idea to keep people out of hospitals when they got sick with corona. This was a mistake, they need early treatment, antibiotics straight away and oxygen. And separate corona hospitals to limit the cross infection.

If this were in place, then your chances of surviving would be much much higher- see Germany. Then the rationale for coming out of lockdown sooner is so much stronger, as you can cope with the illness better, the capacity is even there now, so god knows why so many are still dying.

I think those advocating a 'return to normal' are in denial about how much it's not going to be normal and how much people aren't going to want to buy buy buy or do many of the things they did previously, so industry is going to be massively hit anyway, even if we abandoned our rather pathetic non-lockdown anyway. See anyone who tries to suggest they might book a holiday cottage in Cornwall in July to illustrate this- people are not prepared to tolerate the risk of illness even vs the economic impact in that region. That is what is going to happen when lockdown ends.

OzziePopPop · 05/05/2020 01:12

Ireland seem to have an excellent strategy, surely something similar is best?

ToffeeYoghurt · 05/05/2020 01:23

Yes Ireland has a better strategy than us.

The locked down sooner and stricter too didn't they?

LilacTree1 · 05/05/2020 01:37

Mikki I thought the fatality rate in the UK was more like 0.004%?

duffeldaisy · 05/05/2020 02:42

I agree OP. @ToffeeYoghurt is absolutely right. We’re not even beginning to get on top of this in this country because not everyone who needs it is getting access to early help.
It’s not the medical staff’s fault - the NHS has been systematically underfunded for over a decade, and our rates of medical professionals to patients are far, far lower than in many other countries in the EU, so even when money is spent on the Nightingale buildings, there are not enough staff to run them.

Yes, it’s miserable having a lockdown, and some people are suffering, but simply lifting things now when numbers of infected are so high would be disastrous. It would make the last few weeks pointless because within a couple of weeks the virus would be racing through society all over again. Then I suppose they’ll lock down again for the NHS to ‘cope’, but it’ll mean another couple of months of lockdown again, and another lot of tens of thousands of families mourning loved ones.

Quite how many MH problems that will cause for people is anyone’s guess.

Yes, try to speed the lifting of the lockdown, but do it once every health worker has full PPE, once proper tracking and tracing is in place, full testing happens so we know exact numbers and locations of those infected and infectious, proper strategies for public safety are up and running, and once people are not being left until the last minute to access oxygen. If that means waiting another few months on government support, that’s what should be done.

duffeldaisy · 05/05/2020 02:48

Also, while some people are struggling with lockdown, there must be others (myself included) who are worried about how it’s being lifted. I can’t even sleep properly at the thought of it. (Which is why I’m on Mumsnet at 2.30am, looking for reassurance that not everyone is desperate to be rushing out!)