Attitudes changing?

[CathyandHeathcliff]

Has anybody noticed attitudes changing over the past few days?

It seems to have gone from Facebook comments on articles calling for a stricter lockdown and so on, to calling for lockdown to be lifted sooner rather than later, comments about the economy failing and weighing up the balance.

Our local forums want the lock down to continue till June.

I think so yes op. By mid may it will have been nearly two months and it’s enough for most people, or it’s enough for those who are not struggling mentally.

The issue I suspect is the government refusal to articulate an exit plan. People are starting to take the matter into their own hands. It’s a situation that most people were more than willing to comply to protect the nhs, but with no treatment, no vaccine and no end in sight to corona, and a death rate of likely one percent, then people would rather live normally and take the risk, than continue to live like this.

I think the government policy of not discussing an exit to lock down is what’s caused this.

I agree that the failure to discuss a way forward post lockdown is starting to frustrate people. I suspect the reason for the lack of discussion is that they don’t yet know how low the R0 has been driven and so they don’t know how much leeway there is.

It’s also pretty clear that any exit plan relies very heavily on testing and tracing and the infrastructure just is not there for that to work at the moment. I’m really frustrated about the testing side of things. Why are other countries able to get going on this whilst we are still faffing about?!

I think if there is not more forthcoming by the end of these three weeks people will start to get quite restless.

I’m finding that people are either panicking that lockdown is going to be lifted too soon, usually by people who are vulnerable, shielding etc,

or desperate for it to be lifted, usually people who are fit and healthy or just desperate to get away from their kids ☹️

Either way the lack of knowing one way or the other is the cause of most of the stress.

Unfortunately there will never be a right time that suits everyone

Humans can’t be controlled like this in the long term. It goes against instinct. There will be push back... if you’re a nice law abiding citizen sitting comfy in your garden on furlough topped up to full pay and you’re starting to get a bit twitchy imagine how the lonely, bored, disenfranchised young men in schemes are feeling right now. Caged up. Like prisoners.

There will be riots very soon unless a plan is communicated.

Central London here and fatigue has definitely begun to set in. I’ve noticed a distinct decrease in interest in distancing in grocery stores; more and more people out on the streets and whereas people used to jump to the other side of the pavement when they saw someone coming, this is now becoming the exception. Virtually everyone I know has begun suggesting or thinking of seeing friends since the past few days, even those who were zealous for the first three or four weeks (I’ll include myself in this.)

I think it’s understandable and I really don’t blame anyone. As previous posters note, we can’t stay at home for the next year or more - even if it were economically practical, it’s not socially feasible - and whilst it’s sad on an individual family level when anyone dies the reality is that only a tiny fraction of the deaths (even tinier if we agree that many care home deaths are being discounted) are people under 70 and unfortunately old people die, that’s just the way it is. Yes, not all the deaths are older people - but sometimes young people die, too, often of entirely preventable illnesses related to poor lifestyle choices, and we somehow manage to find it acceptable then.

I know this is a very unpopular attitude to have on MN, but outside of it I’m going to take a guess that it may actually be the majority one now the novelty of lockdown has worn off. I also agree that failure to communicate how lockdown might end is a big part of it - if there were some light at the end of the tunnel I think a lot of people would be willing to hold onto a bit more patience.

*finding that people are either panicking that lockdown is going to be lifted too soon, usually by people who are vulnerable, shielding etc,

or desperate for it to be lifted, usually people who are fit and healthy or just desperate to get away from their kids ☹️*

Nope. I’ve found the people who want lockdown to go on for months and months and months are the privileged well off and wealthy who can stay at home, have lots of savings and dont have to worry about money. The people I know who are desperate to go back are those whose money has run out and they are worried they don’t have enough for rent, food, bills etc. No matter what the government says I know of several people whose landlords aren’t giving them a payment holiday. People are getting desperate

The problem is everyone only knows what people in their own bubble are saying.

I find mumsnet a place that is dominated by mostly fairly educated people who perhaps play by rules and always have done. In real life There are a lot of people who are not as educated, have no savings, live week to week, sometimes claiming benefits and doing a few cash in hand jobs to make ends meet. They are survivors. They won’t be on furlough. They will have no income in some cases. Some spend a lot of time in pubs and living for today, some with criminal pasts. They don’t have a spouse or kids.

There are career criminals who don’t play by rules and estates where even looking at someone the wrong way can end badly. Do you seriously think all of these will keep this up for the next 8 months so that someone they don’t know might not catch it. No chance. I can guarantee that if my local pub announced on Fb that it had been given permission to open for one night tomorrow. It would be full within 2 minutes of opening.

That’s the reality. It’s a miracle people have complied so well so far.

The issue I suspect is the government refusal to articulate an exit plan

Agreed. It's so odd. I'm certain people would be more patient if they had a slight idea of when/how it may come to an end. I get that the government may not know that for sure yet, but they should have SOME idea, and they should inform people of that.

Russellbrandshair we obviously move in different circles, not a criticism, just an observation.

I don’t know anyone rich with loads of saving who can stay at home indefinately. I do know lots of average people just getting by, but who are are terrified for their health. And the ones who are desperate for lockdown to be lifted are on benefits so no loss in wages for them or massive changes to lifestyle, just want to get their kids back to school and out of the house.

I haven't been looking on forums (other than Mumsnet) but have noticed a lot more people in parks the last couple of days. They're mainly exercising, but there are definitely more of them. I don't know if it's just the sunny weather, or people avoiding going out at all now coming out.

Like a previous poster said, most people seem to have stopped crossing the road to stay away from people as well.

@Hairytriker Ive never seen so many stereotypes of housing estates crammed into one post

I live on a housing estate and people here have been very compliant

Im teetotal and have never been drunk in my life.

The first place of business i will be going to when its open is the hairdresser.

It wasnt people on housing estates going on skiing trips to Northern Italy AFTER the virus had been well publicised.

It wasnt people from housing estates who kept boarding cruise ships
It wasnt people from housing estates fleeing to their second homes.

Everyone is being compliant pretty much where I live. People are scared of getting sick.

As time goes on and deaths stop rising so drastically, it's kind of inevitable that the perceived risk starts to fall.

In my city, surveys show about 80% of people believe that isolation measures should continue for now. But foot and road traffic surveys also show that circulation has been increasing week on week since the initial drop in week 1 of isolation.

Not in the last few days, more like in the last few weeks. More traffic, more shopping, more mixing of households. No social distancing.

All I can think is that they dont know anyone who has had it, or died from it. Or that they do but don't care

estates where even looking at someone the wrong way can end badly

I live in quite a deprived area and this is a problem. At first people wanted the lockdown and fully understood the reasons why we had to do it but now there is a shift, a selfishness that's crept in. It isn't about money or not being middle class and privileged, as the rest if your post suggests. I don't know what it is but it feels like you can't mention lockdown anymore, and how serious it still is and how we must stick to it, without it being shut down in the conversation. It's a real turnaround in attitude and I fear that in a few weeks time the NHS will suffer for it

I know one family who are not complying, they are openly hostile about the lockdown. The adult daughter works in a shop and has used both parents (who live apart) for childcare even though the dad has had a heart attack in the past year. The teenage daughter is moving between mum's and sisters and is having sleepovers with her best friend and the whole family are visiting each other socially. Adult daughter is also visiting her on off boyfriend and her mum is annoyed her bf won't see her because he lives with his dad who has cancer.

Apart from that everyone is sticking by the rules as far as I can see. There were more people out in my village on Saturday than the week before but everyone was keeping their distance.

@Hairytriker your post is filled with so many stereotypes. I live in one of the poorest, most crime ridden London boroughs.

Posted too soon. Most people are really good at following social distancing and it has the lower end amount of confirmed cases in London.

I live on a housing estate and people here have been very compliant

I live in one of the most deprived parts of the UK on an estate and I would have agreed with you a month ago, but not anymore. No way.

It's really upsetting now to see what's happening here and the way people are behaving like selfish bastards, again, and it's the elderly and vulnerable who suffer, as usual.

Funnily enough it's only really here and comments in the Sun where I've seen any desire for early end to lockdown. Perhaps the Sun readers are the same posters on Mumsnet. I wonder if some hope to manipulate people into taking a "if we can't beat 'em, join them" approach in order to hasten a second wave with all the additional deaths and economic damage that will bring early end to lockdown.

Luckily it seems like most people have a bit of foresight and they realise the consequences of a second wave. They seem aware that our one month lockdown is far shorter and less strict than other countries, like France who have around half the numbers of deaths we do.

Deprived areas are as mixed in their attitudes as anywhere else. If anything many living in poverty are taking more precautions since many of them will be at higher risk. Poverty and ill health are very strongly linked.

Perhaps those who have changed attitudes see a chance to win something and don't care it's not a prize most would covet? We already have around 41,000 deaths. Higher than most other countries. Perhaps some people want us to top the world death rate table?

ToffeeYoghurt

I think it's simply that on council estates and in some inner city areas there is always an element of criminality, and their fellow travelers, who while not being outright criminals themselves , don't mind doing a dodgy deal now and gain . We all know who they are, usually big families who like to rule roost and boss and bully everyone else around.

Most people are honest and hard working but it's this undercurrent of dodgy ones, who no one else dare go up against, and who have always been greedy and selfish. So no surprise that they are often the ones who lead the way at breaking the lock down

The peak is over so ppl feel it’s ok to ignore the advice and too as they please now. Generally people who think they know better than the experts even though they don’t have any where near the amount of information. I don’t understand what people are expecting from our government. No other countries are doing daily briefings and updates, in some countries leaders speak once a fortnight or less. In the main European countries they get a few weeks lockdown then review then further decisions but the British people always want more. Why is our government so much more able to tell us more than any others? Chris Whitty told us why they can’t tell us the exit plan because they are still calculating what combination of measures will keep he infection rate at a level it needs to be. If we have a second peak because everyone ignores advice and starts spreading it quickly then the lockdown is going to need to be in place for longer, but ppl are so entitled and selfish they can’t see beyond ‘Ive had enough now’ ‘I’m bored’ and ‘I know best’. Those moaning about the impact on the economy aren’t realising that the things they are calling for changing could actually negatively affect the economy more. If we have a second peak and need further lockdown that will impact hugely on the economy and that in turn will have more negative consequences everyone keeps banging o about.