Attitudes changing?

[CathyandHeathcliff]

Has anybody noticed attitudes changing over the past few days?

It seems to have gone from Facebook comments on articles calling for a stricter lockdown and so on, to calling for lockdown to be lifted sooner rather than later, comments about the economy failing and weighing up the balance.

[Inkpaperstars]

I agree about communication Keep. They do have a new website where they state they are not going for herd immunity other than through vaccination. But much more is needed.

I think they need to do a series of press conferences or tv lessons with just Chris Whitty present explaining what he feels we need to understand, with free rein to say what he wants. Public understanding would be so helpful. There is a danger some would misinterpret what he says though I guess, or more likely that the truth will be too unpalatable for some and they will just give up. Still, he could at least explain some of the basic concepts people are missing, and seem reluctant to google.

Smile yes I am worried about that too. It does seem somewhat inevitable but maybe they are trying to give us the best chance of avoiding another peak. I don't know. I don't think the CMO is delusional, but his take is probably a lot more complicated than we know.

[Keepdistance]

Well that is what they need to communicate -that we are going for suppression until a vax?
Other countries are not just reopening schools -read the other threads.
It involves
Smaller classes 10/15
Masks
1-2m apart.

[Taliya]

I've seen more people out and about..and yes online more people are saying the lockdown should be lifted.

[Bluntness100]

Far too much disruption to go back only to finish again 5 or 6 weeks later.

I guess you don’t work?

[Inkpaperstars]

Lockdown was not just to delay things.


Lockdown is not just to delay things.

It is to transform them. We are not planning exponential growth, pause for lockdown, then exponential growth. We are planning exponential growth, lockdown to beat R down and put other measures in place like testing, then use that low R and other measures to suppress and sustain at a low level until we have a vaccine or drug therapy or at least know more.

That suppression and sustaining looks a hell of a lot better for people's health, social lives, contacts, jobs, economy etc, than exponential growth or even exponential growth interrupted with repeated strict lockdowns. Although we may end up with that poorer outcome if the UK population can't manage to comply. Very counterproductive for them but there you are.

Lockdown is not just about delaying things. It may end up that way if the scientists have got things wrong about how it plays out inc adherence, but that is not the plan.

[Inkpaperstars]

I’m actually saddened by some comments about how people are struggling so much. Not talking about jobs and financial impacts, but not being able to go to the pub or out for dinner or the gym or to see someone in ‘real life’. Again, not talking about those with MH issues either, but I’m amazed how many people are really struggling after 5wks. Maybe people will realise how fortunate they are to have those things when they return and have some understanding and sympathy for those who are not as fortunate as them

Absolutely, have these people realised that throughout their lives there have been people suddenly put on 'lockdown' through illness or injury, with no end in sight?

[audweb]

Schools in Scotland won’t be told in June I don’t think. We shut on the 29th June anyway. I think most people up here assume it will be August before they go back.

[Tulipstulips]

People who think it’s impossible for schools to reopen soon - what do you think is happening in other countries which are reopening schools?

[Sunshine1239]

5 or 6 weeks is a lot when you think how much the kids have missed and it limits the amount of childcare parents have to find

The summer hols is long enough without lengthening it

And really what’s the difference between June and sept ? We are just as unlikely to have a vaccine then

[Kazzyhoward]

Schools will be told to open June latest so help with parents going back to work tho may be limited attendance

Pointless unless they're going to stay open over the Summer holidays. Far too much disruption to go back only to finish again 5 or 6 weeks later.

[Sunshine1239]

Schools will be told to open June latest so help with parents going back to work tho may be limited attendance

[Sunshine1239]

I teach

Think of secure unit that’s sort of thing

We are looking to go back in couple weeks with reduced class sizes and our kids are much more vulnerable that kids in mainstream

[Noextremes2017]

Well - as we are now being told (belatedly) - we have got to learn to live with it because it is not going away in the short term.
Living with it means going to school; going to work; and socialising with family / friends.
We can't endure lockdown for 12 months or more while a vaccine is developed in the west.
So we might as well start learning to live with it now.

[Goatymcgoaty]

I imagine there’ll be some lip service paid to social distancing in schools, better than nothing but not as effective as our current situation. I can’t imagine schools being off for too long now given that business seems to be starting up again - click and collect starting up this weekend in places, house builders and construction starting back from 1st May, McDonalds and Costa starting to open a few outlets again. What are people who work in these places going to do, take the kids to work with them?

[ClaudiasWinkleMan]

I don’t think schools can go back any time soon. There is no way to social distance in schools, you can’t follow the struck hygiene practices as kids don’t wash there hands, constantly pick their noses/wipe noses on arms. Trying to get 400+ kids to keep washing their hands with 17 sinks is going to mean they are in the toilets more then the classroom or queuing to wash their hands.
The reason this will be a problem is we don’t have an unlimited supply of staff to keep the schools open. You have to have ratios of staff to children to operate safely. Staff can’t socially distance from the children in a class, kids don’t cover there mouths when they cough or wash there hands after, you potentially have 30 households in one class. When the teacher gets sick there won’t be anyone to cover that class. So do that class stay home for the 14 days+ the teacher is not there? Some staff are in shield group so can’t return to work. Who replaces those staff? You can’t have supply staff in schools at the moment due to measures in place and couldn’t for weeks before lockdown started.
I just don’t know how schools can open safely. As we are now seeing young people get seriously ill from this. A 5 year old girl died in America, she had no health condition.
How do you social distance for drop of and pick up? How do secondary kids social distance on public transport?
What about children that have parents in the shield group? They can’t go to school every day and come home to parents that are meant to be shielded.
There are so many questions that need to be answered before schools can safely open, I just don’t see it happening any time soon. The only way schools could operate for key worker children is there were at most 30 children in school in any given day and staff were in a rota so could have 2 weeks off is symptomatic or anyone in house was and they could be covered. This won’t work if 400+ children are in school.
I totally understand the want to get back to normal. I just don’t know how that can happen in practical terms.

[Noextremes2017]

Vynalbob. Of course I agree a lot of the extra deaths are Covid related - and some will be people having heart attacks / strokes etc because so many planned operations have been cancelled due to the prioritizing everything around Coronavirus.
I understand that. In fact if it was not for Coronavirus I would have had a heart bypass at the start of April. But if they changed their policy and called me in now I'd politely decline. A hospital is definitely the wrong place to be right now with any condition which is why most of the outpatient appointments are now done by phone and everybody is suddenly reluctant to visit A&E (probably rightly so in many cases).
The point is that most of us can take sensible personal decisions, sensible personal precautions etc without a bunch of frankly, useless, politicians telling us what we can or can't do. The worst of which is Matt Hancock who in any sane world would not even be put in charge of the hospital tea trolley!

[Vynalbob]

Sorry 34Noextremes2017
Excuse nonse... It was meant to be nonsense

[Vynalbob]

Just have to pop in to make a counter point to 34Noextremes2017
You mention wrong place wrong time is almost saying never mind people sie get over it.
And your specific point about death certificates is nonse / fake / your personal hunch....the facts say the opposite. Autopsy rarely happening due to amount of deaths... No tests so GPs being pressured NOT to put it on death certificates when patient has not been tested.
This has been reported... And you can see it in the stats
Vehicle deaths & drunken deaths down but even after you take away all coronavirus deaths (ONS not daily soundbite) the number of deaths are thousands more than the average for this time of year. Lock down hasn't been that long (may feel like it) so the reason for the extra 1000s are likely to be Covid related.
Cancer & testing & emergency hubs etc are being set up but not staffed properly....the nightly news message has to happen but it's increasingly looking like a second rate magic show...all pazazz but even the less perceptive are beginning to notice pigeons in their pockets.
Sorry will get back to my hermit cave now.

[lightnesspixie]

@SnydeValley right on every point. 100% in agreement with every one of your points

[twinnywinny14]

I’m actually saddened by some comments about how people are struggling so much. Not talking about jobs and financial impacts, but not being able to go to the pub or out for dinner or the gym or to see someone in ‘real life’. Again, not talking about those with MH issues either, but I’m amazed how many people are really struggling after 5wks. Maybe people will realise how fortunate they are to have those things when they return and have some understanding and sympathy for those who are not as fortunate as them

[Noextremes2017]

You can still fly from London to Wuhan?

Well maybe Wuhan is the safest place right now. There are plenty of people who think the Chinese now have a vaccine - just unfortunate that the Chinese Communist Party does not want to share it with the rest of the world.

Doesn't anybody else think it rather strange that China - where it all started - does not seem to be having a second peak. Only cases brought in by 'foreigners'!!!!!!

Also - how does the Chinese President walk round Wuhan with nothing but a facemask on (which is generally accepted to be useless). Probable answer: Because he is vaccinated...……...

[Noextremes2017]

Mynydd - all fair points (except your last one about the economy recovering). Of course it will but a lot of people will get hurt in the process (a lot more than get Coronavirus) and poor will be hardest hit.

The issue with lockdown that people are pissed off with is the cluelessness of this Government. Anybody with any degree of common sense resents being lectured to by a bunch of idiots at 5.00pm every night with their catchy three word phrases (bit like 'get Brexit done') but with a lack of any substance. And no coherent exit plan!

The death figures quoted every night are irrelevant because they don't represent 'extra' deaths - and include so many people with pre-existing conditions who just happen to be unfortunate enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time (in infectious hospitals). Tragic for them - but unsurprising that they eventually get the Coronavirus added to their list of issues. But it suits the Government to quote the highest possible figures all the while their only plan is effectively that we should all hide away from the virus and hopefully the hospitals will stay well below capacity. That is not a plan - it is a total abdication of responsibility.

But should be expect any more from a Government led by Boris Johnson who never took responsibility for anything in his life?

[aivilodraw]

The government are completely backward and I think people need to remember that they don’t care if people get C19 it’s about when. You can still fly from Wuhan to London hahaha.

[Mynydd]

Your attitude can change all you like, it affects no one. Your behaviour should stay the same: stay the fuck at home. It's not over yet. The lockdown is still in place. This is, unfortunately, one of those times you just have to get on with doing something that is hard. We may not have a clear exit strategy but surely we will know lock down will end at some point? It's not fun or easy but most of us can do it. Just stay home. Go out for exercise and essential shopping. Find a quiet patch of grass to sit and eat crisps if you want - that's within guidelines and hurts no one. Don't visit your elderly nan. Don't let your children play out with their friends. Economies can be rebuilt and most people have the capacity to dig deep and carry on.