Attitudes changing?

[CathyandHeathcliff]

Has anybody noticed attitudes changing over the past few days?

It seems to have gone from Facebook comments on articles calling for a stricter lockdown and so on, to calling for lockdown to be lifted sooner rather than later, comments about the economy failing and weighing up the balance.

My attitude is changing because the government keep changing the goalposts. First it was we need to flatten the curve. Then it was we need to have adequate PPE. Now it's we need to be sure of no second wave. I feel like they're making it up as they go along. How can we trust a government with no proper exit strategy. We are being treated like children and I am starting to lose sympathy.

I am getting tired of whinging teachers, with their 2 children per class, working 1 week in 4. And don't start with 'they're busy setting work' because most of it is the homework they'd be sending out anyway and that's not even being marked.

The teachers I know aren't whingeing. They are, however, having to rewrite every lesson plan and redesign every worksheet, catering not only for different abilities (as usual) but also for varying levels of help, from those with very involved parents who are practically home schooling them for hours each day, to those who are lucky if they get 1/2 hour with a mobile phone.

Plus putting up with moans from people who are clearly entirely ignorant of what they're doing!

@Russellbrandshair same observations as you. Massive difference between those who have secure jobs and can wfh (particularly with one sahp) and those who are watching their livelihoods collapse round them. There was discussion on class what’s app group about school extending term. Clear difference between those with secure employment and income, who wanted their holidays (and were still hopefully to be able to go away) and the self employed who are hoping restrictions may be lifted a bit so they can work all summer and not lose their businesses/homes.

"SarahInAccounts

"That's a bit dramatic. There wont be crowds of people at the beach, and people can still self distance."

"But they don't you must have seen the photos. Dramatic not wanting my kids to die? I guess so."

You've seen the pictures the police and the news wanted you to see at the first week if lockdown. Beaches have been empty for weeks now. The press went searching for pictures of so called gatherings (people walking with their family) as they had no other news to report. They got told off for using drones to record people walking in the hills and all they could show was two people and a dog!!!

FriedasCarLoad
A partner in secondary and a brother in primary. Can't speak for what all teachers are doing, but I'm not ignorant about what these particular two are doing, and doing what is being asked of them at that.

"Keeping the vast majority locked away, when the risk to them is minimal, would be far to damaging."

"Damaging to whom?"

Damaging to thousands of people. People who arent getting treatment, people who arent exercising, who should be, people with mental health issues, people in general. Lockdown is not an ideal scenario longterm. Surely you can see that.

The lockdown was never ever about saving lives. I think you have misinterpreted it's purpose. It is in place to ensure resources could cope.

It was to buy time for the NHS and other organisations (councils, charities, businesses etc) to get themselves organised and ready to support those who need supporting, whether by medical treatment, or food/medicine deliveries etc. Some organisations are now ready, others aren't.

The first thing that has to change is for normal hospital/medical treatment to start again. We can't carry on not treating cancer patients and not taking essential regular blood tests etc. The number one priority has to be getting hospitals, GP surgeries etc back to doing all the things that need doing. That doesn't mean going back to how things were before, but it means doing things differently so that people with illness, disease, etc are getting the treatment they need - which they're not at the moment.

Talking about pubs and schools reopening is ridiculous when hospitals and GP surgeries are providing such limited/restricted treatments and throwing huge numbers of people to the wolves.

@Sunshinegirl82 - sorry, my mistake, I have misread your post. I fully agree with you on testing and tracing.

Damaging to whom?

To people who are unable to go for screenings, or other medical appointments. To those who might lose their jobs, businesses who might close. People who struggle with mental health, those in abusive relationships and parents of children with additional needs.

There's just a few off the top of my head. I understand your situation must be scary, but lockdown just isn't a realistic long term solution.

Damaging to thousands of people. People who arent getting treatment, people who arent exercising, who should be, people with mental health issues, people in general. Lockdown is not an ideal scenario longterm. Surely you can see that

But they aren't dying, are they? Of course it isn't ideal but it's better than an even bigger death rate.

Also the people dying disproportionately are the elderly and they vote Tory - can't see Johson sacrificing votes.

Damaging to thousands of people. People who arent getting treatment, people who arent exercising, who should be, people with mental health issues, people in general. Lockdown is not an ideal scenario longterm. Surely you can see that.

Also damaging where those "vulnerable" being shielded would otherwise be doing important jobs, running essential businesses, caring for others etc. Not all the most vulnerable are elderly or severely disabled. Lots, like my OH, were running businesses, employing people, etc. If he has to continue being shielded, he'll have to close the business and make staff redundant. One of our neighboours is a GP who is also being shielded due to a serious health condition - upto a few weeks ago, he was working 3 days per week, now he is behind closed doors at home - his GP surgery need him back at work, but he will be unable to until a vaccine.

@SarahInAccounts
I’m sorry you’re in the situation you’re in, it must be frightening and stressful, but we simply can’t curtail freedoms indefinitely and allow the future of entire generations to be blighted in order to protect a minority of the population. It’s not just about going to the beach. Those who are shielding should be protected as far as possible financially and practically, but - unfair and utilitarian though it may be - the same social distancing rules cannot be applied to the entire healthy population long term.

Sarahinaccounts....the reason people are shielding is to keep them out of hospital for as long as possible, so as the nhs doesnt get overwhelmed. It's not about making sure you dont get it at all. At some point the majority of us will have it. I dont think the plan is to keep shielding people away from it forever. I think you may need to accept that. We are not going to be on lockdown till this goes away. We will gradually come out of lockdown, and yes, people will be going to the beach or wherever they want to go.

But they aren't dying, are they?

Of course people will die as a result of this. Just the lack of hospital screening and other vital appointments, will almost certainly result in deaths.

But they aren't dying, are they? Of course it isn't ideal but it's better than an even bigger death rate.

They've cancelled all cancer treatment and investigations. At this point it is already incredibly likely that the consequences of that will result in more deaths than from Covid. It might be a scary time for you but maybe try to not be quite so callous about how expendable other people are even if they may be old or Tory voters.

"SarahInAccounts"

"Damaging to thousands of people. People who arent getting treatment, people who arent exercising, who should be, people with mental health issues, people in general. Lockdown is not an ideal scenario longterm. Surely you can see that"

"But they aren't dying, are they? "

Neither are you likely to be. And yes, a lot will die from lockdown. Lots wont be getting cancer treatments, or important physio, lots will commit suicide through mental health.

"Of course it isn't ideal but it's better than an even bigger death rate."

But we cant do this forever. Can you not see that? How long do you think we should continue?

"Also the people dying disproportionately are the elderly and they vote Tory - can't see Johson sacrificing votes."

That's very very wrong. What an assumption. Of course they dont all vote Tory

When lockdown started our town was a ghost town, now you go into town and it's like normal. People are over it

Anyway, Sarah...if you want to stay at home for the rest of your life, feel free. No one else will have to, just for you. Your kids will need to go to school, get an education, have a life etc.

I’m looking forward to going to work and Starbucks and the beach...once we are “allowed” to of course. And I won’t feel bad about doing it.

Comments online people refer to in mail or sun are very likely to be subtle manipulation. Intended to encourage people into economic suicide and massively increased number of deaths in a bad second wave premature end to lockdown. Clever - make people think everyone else wants it and no-one is sticking to lockdown so they might as well give up. Of course the wealthy CEOs won't themselves be on crowded public transport or packed open-plan offices.

Thank goodness the Bank of England governor, someone who knows about the economy, has warned against, noting the longer term economic damage of going back to work for only a few weeks. Because after a few weeks everyone will be off again. Either sick (many fit healthy people are knocked off their feet for weeks) or dead or their colleagues or clients are sick or dead. We them face illness and lockdown, confined to homes at the worst possible time - during hot, possibly heatwave, weather.

We won't have anywhere to go on holiday to abroad btw. Why do people think anywhere will accept travellers from the country topping the world death rate table. And the economy. Who will want to invest in or trade with us.

We can't compare to other countries. Sweden has 50% single person households. Far easier to self isolate and limit any spread. They also have a very good healthcare system. Having said that, like here it's disproportionately affecting poorer migrant areas. Perhaps that's not a problem for people there. They're possibly more racist? Hopefully our own BAME community won't be seen as so expendable.

Germany. The opposite of us. We have one of the highest death rates in the world. They have one of the lowest. They tested and tested and tested. They treat early when chances of survival are much higher, they efficiently organised sufficient stock of PPE for frontline staff, they have enough face masks to mandate the public wearing them. Likely they have more stock of the drugs that have been very successful so far in treating it (if given early).

France. Lockdown sooner than us and stricter. No plans to lift until safer to do so. They have around half the numbers of deaths we do.

We are nowhere near ready. Before we can think about lifting lockdown we need to get mass testing (this time with accurate tests), sufficient PPE for staff, masks for the public, enough staff and equipment and drugs (we're even running low on sedatives for ICU), and masks for the public. Just like those countries who are slowly easing lockdown.

We already have over 100 healthcare staff dead. Transport and care home workers too. We have around 30-40% of our population falling into a high risk group. The conditions with the highest mortality rates - diabetes, hypertension, cardiac, being overweight - aren't on the shielding list.

Topping the world Covid death rate table is really not something to aspire to. We're already being viewed as a shambolic joke abroad. Rightly so.

And it could be years before a vaccine. Nobody is going to be staying inside for a decade.

Yes attitudes are defo changing

And people wanted lockdown sooner! Bloody good job the government held out as long as it did to at least get us to the peak

The more the figures come out the more you see that the risk to those that are healthy is so low it’s not even on the radar

It’s a massive over reaction to the healthy to be completely isolated although I can totally sympathise with those who should be shielding and isolating.

It’ll be business as usual soon as more and more come out of lockdown whether it’s officially over or not

Already more and more businesses are returning

I am a boringly compliant person and have been following lockdown rules (to the point of armchair vigilantism and judgy pants at neighbours and friends ) but I now have friends who's children are mixing on the common/in gardens, people who are visiting parents, getting their cleaners to start again, going to local hairdresser's house to get haircut.

It is becoming a struggle to fight the voice in my head that is saying 'well if everyone else is, why shouldn't I?'.

Around my city people aren't really taking it seriously anyway and spread isn't higher than anywhere else, the key is for the vulnerable to isolate. I think the mental health issues, including suicide would be a bigger problem than c19 if lockdown isn't changed soon. Ok standing up in packed bars and clubs is out but shops, especially places like garden centres, sit down restaurants, museums (restricted footfall for big London museums), beaches if spaced etc need to have a reopening planned because we are not keeping this up for a year as a nation. The money saved from not furloughing so many people can be used partly to support people generously with health conditions which means they have to isolate until vaccination is possible, and providing food drops for over 80's especially (younger with comorbidities)