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Daily numbers, graphs, analysis thread 5

999 replies

Barracker · 15/04/2020 20:28

Welcome to thread 5 of the daily updates.

Resource links:
Worldometer UK page
Financial Times Daily updates and graphs
HSJ Coronavirus updates
Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Centre
NHS England stats, including breakdown by Hospital Trust
Covidly.com to filter graphs using selected data filters
ONS statistics for CV related deaths outside hospitals, released weekly each Tuesday
Google mobility stats

Thank you to all contributors for their factual, data driven, and civil discussions.Flowers

OP posts:
Thread gallery
78
HowFurloughCanYouGo · 20/04/2020 14:51

Weekend lag - every Sunday and Monday is the same in terms of seeing a big drop compared to Saturdays figures

Why is this?

loobyloo1234 · 20/04/2020 14:55

There's an article here that explains weekend lag and so on if that helps - but they do the same in every Sunday/Monday briefing to not look into the day's figures for the same reason

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/coronavirus-in-the-uk-why-calculating-the-death-toll-is-so-difficult-pxcn9ppkw

tootyfruitypickle · 20/04/2020 14:58

Sounds like your friends info hasn’t been updated unless she’s still on treatment? I had cancer ten years ago and am sure I’m not even in vulnerable list ?

Derbygerbil · 20/04/2020 14:58

Weekend lag - every Sunday and Monday is the same in terms of seeing a big drop compared to Saturdays figures

And yet it never stops the DM from announcing “huge fall” and “massive rise” like clockwork each week Hmm

Frompcat · 20/04/2020 15:02

To be fair the drop today and yesterday is to much to be solely explained by a weekend lag.

Frompcat · 20/04/2020 15:02

TOO much.

HowFurloughCanYouGo · 20/04/2020 15:04

Damn that looked like a really interesting article. But I have to pay to subscribe to read it all.

blossombabies · 20/04/2020 15:08

i think we are looking at rates going down, even if tomorrow is higher there is no way it will be over 950 (which seems to be our peak?)

still incredibly sad and a huge number but we seem to be going in the right direction.

LittleMissBumFun · 20/04/2020 15:10

Tomorrow will be interesting

PrimalLass · 20/04/2020 15:29

In Scotland our 7-day average had dropped to 38 deaths today. It has been sitting at around 50 since the 9th. Hopefully this is the sign things are improving. But yes, tomorrow and Wednesday will be crucial.

itsgettingweird · 20/04/2020 15:29

My parents are shielded list.

Both having chemo.
Mum still having it and without chemo would have a year probably but even with may only have a few years if lucky.
Dad finished his last Friday. Prostrate cancer so certainly not expected to die within a year. Then turns 70 this month. He however is extremely fit and healthy and went to the gym 5 times a week before this running and cycling for 10's of km.

Ds is in flu jab group but is 15. He has a condition called HSP (neurological). We haven't been told to shield him.

BirdieFriendReturns · 20/04/2020 15:30

“NHS England said a further 429 people have died in its hospitals - just 85 of those died yesterday, April 19.”

There’s a backlog in death reporting.

Seadragonusgiganticusmaximus · 20/04/2020 15:34

Telegraph doesn’t seem to have share tokens like the Times. Not sure how much I can post without someone shouting at me for copyright issues. But here’s the first bit:

“Every day the number of Covid-19 deaths reported from hospitals across the UK make headlines.

But every time they are underestimates of the true death toll, just a snapshot of what is happening in wards across the country.

For a better estimate of the scale of the pandemic in the UK, the total number of deaths, including those not linked to coronavirus, hold some clues.

Thousands of excess deaths are now being reported across the country, leading to the highest weekly death toll since records began.

And amid a meagre testing regime which has not yet passed 20,000 people a day, the number of deaths linked to Covid-19 is likely to be vastly understated.

Record number of deaths

The total number of deaths in the UK has begun to spike, on a scale which has shocked statisticians.

16,387 deaths recorded in England and Wales in the seven days to April 3 makes it the deadliest week since current records began in 2005. It was more than 6,000 higher than the five-year average for the time of year.

Only 3,475 of those deaths had Covid-19 registered on the death certificate, leaving 2,607 unexplained excess deaths.

[graphic]

Professor Sir David Spiegelhalter, a statistician at the University of Cambridge, said the spike was "incredibly vivid".

"I don't think I've ever been as shocked when I've looked at something, particularly as just over half of that spike were death certificates with Covid written on them," he said.

"We knew there was going to be a pump in Covid-registered deaths. I hadn't expected such a huge number of deaths which didn't mention it on the death certificate."

The unexplained deaths are likely to be related to Covid-19 but have not yet been detected, such as deaths in care homes, where many residents die before a doctor can examine them, or deaths from unrelated illnesses.

Care England data recently suggested as many as 7,500 could have died from coronavirus in care homes so far.

A similar scenario is playing out in Scotland and Northern Ireland.

As death registration is a faster process in Scotland, more recent data is available. And more excess deaths are beginning to be associated with Covid-19.

In week 14 coronavirus deaths equated to around 46 per cent of all excess deaths. By week 15 it was almost 70 per cent.

Tom Dening, a professor of dementia research at the University of Nottingham, said: "It is worrying that there appears to be a sharp increase in deaths in the community that are not known to be due to Covid-19. So far, we don't have good data on the possible reasons for this, but there are a number of possibilities.

"The first is simply that many of these are in fact caused by Covid-19 that wasn't diagnosed. Testing remains extremely limited outside hospitals, so we probably won't ever know how many people had the virus during this period.

"There are probably multiple reasons for other deaths. These include people not feeling able to attend their GP surgeries, call an ambulance or attend A&E as they may have done in the past. Therefore, some serious conditions may present too late for effective treatment.”

"Another possibility is that some people with serious conditions, like cancer or chronic kidney disease, are either unable or unwilling to attend hospital on the usual regular basis, so their treatment regimes may lapse."

It follows the release of NHS figures which showed that, since the beginning of the outbreak, A&E attendance has dropped to its lowest level since modern records began.”

meowcatmeow · 20/04/2020 15:34

I'm a bit confused (easily done)...
If there are approx 5000 new cases a day and approx a 10% death rate of positive cases, does this mean that we are looking at figures of 500 deaths a day until the number of positive cases starts to fall?
Shouldn't we be watching the number of positive cases a day fall before we can see any sign of this improving?
Have I interpreted this wrongly?

Floopsy · 20/04/2020 15:43

I'm in Belgium and the virologist who is giving the daily press conference here said that the key figure to look out for was hospitalisations. Once that figure starts to fall it indicates that things are slowing down. Deaths will peak some time after the admissions peak. There were 232 hospital admissions yesterday; hospitalisations peaked on 28 March with 629 admissions - deaths peaked on 12 April 331. We locked down one week before the UK.

The proportion of care home deaths here is over 50% and that proportion of the total death rate rises each day. Today reported 168 deaths have been reported, of which 62 occurred in the hospital, and were confirmed cases. 103 of the deaths were reported by the residential care centres, of which 3% were confirmed.

To be honest, I don't know how reassuring I find this information. It indicates that the outbreak in the wider community is under control. However, it the rise in death rates and increased number of cases in care facilities signifies that the infection is running rampant among the vulnerable. We too have had problems with lack of PPE, especially in care homes. These are people who could be protected, should be protected but have not been.

Baaaahhhhh · 20/04/2020 15:50

An interesting and completely irrelevant stat for you (I have been watching the crown!), up to 12,000 died in FOUR days during the "Great Smog" in 1952. I didn't know anything about it......

Moving on, this from the Belgium Times:

Daily numbers, graphs, analysis thread 5
Baaaahhhhh · 20/04/2020 15:58

It was there, now it's not, here's a link. It is just the deaths per 100,000 graph, from John Hopkins.....

www.brusselstimes.com/all-news/belgium-all-news/health/107231/coronavirus-over-2-4-million-confirmed-cases-worldwide/

Daily numbers, graphs, analysis thread 5
ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 20/04/2020 16:11

meow
As more of the cases include NHS staff due to pillar 2 testing rather than pillar 1 tests of people needing hospitalisation then the mortality rate will change.
Also as testing increases the number of positive cases will be increasing although the number of hospitalisations may simultaneously be dropping.
There is a lag of 2-3 weeks from hospitalisation to death.
Given the variance in cases due to the testing roll out, the death rate is the clearest measure albeit a flawed one.

Polkadotties · 20/04/2020 16:25

Sky news. UK deaths today 449

tootyfruitypickle · 20/04/2020 16:46

If the trend continues presume there’ll be a small release of lockdown in 3 weeks? Allowed out more than once, more shops opening?

I’m getting from the press conferences that the community transmission is under control- but massive issues in care homes and in hospitals so they need that under control as well . Interestingly the Italian health minister made this exact point on Marr pre lockdown - he said you need covid only hospitals . Presumably that might also help with reducing other deaths as people would be less fearful of going into hospital?

Baaaahhhhh · 20/04/2020 16:56

need covid only hospitals There has been some resistance to this from hospital management. I suspect that this is the way we will go however.

Oakmaiden · 20/04/2020 16:57

you need covid only hospitals

Thing is, how would that actually work? Someone brought into a non-Covid hospital suffering from a heart attack might have asymptomatic CV, pass it on to his care givers, who in turn pass it on to their other patients and before you know where you are you have outbreaks in non-Covid hospitals. What do you do then? Move all the cases? What about people who are hospitalised with, I dunno - cancer - but have moderate CV? Which hospital do they go to?

123bananas · 20/04/2020 17:16

This has been a problem so far @oakmaiden with elderly being brought in for a fall for example, going through A&E, medical assessment and onto a bay in a ward then testing positive days later when they become symptomatic. In the meantime countless people have been unknowingly exposed.

tootyfruitypickle · 20/04/2020 17:42

Yes very good points. I guess we’re back to the mass testing needed

PrimalLass · 20/04/2020 17:44

In Scotland our 7-day average had dropped to 38 deaths today. It has been sitting at around 50 since the 9th.

No I wrote down the wrong numbers as was squinting at my phone. Still 48.