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Worried About Coronavirus- thread 37

999 replies

TheStarryNight · 10/04/2020 00:27

New thread

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RedToothBrush · 16/04/2020 20:46

When used car sales men run government.

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/16/world/middleeast/coronavirus-antibody-test-uk.html#click=t.co/LDJA9aa6VS" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.nytimes.com/2020/04/16/world/middleeast/coronavirus-antibody-test-uk.html#click=t.co/LDJA9aa6VS

U.K. Paid $20 Million for New Coronavirus Tests. They Didn’t Work.
Facing a global scramble for materials, British officials bought millions of unproven kits from China in a gamble that became an embarrassment.

LONDON — The two Chinese companies were offering a risky proposition: two million home test kits said to detect antibodies for the coronavirus for at least $20 million, take it or leave it.

The asking price was high, the technology was unproven and the money had to be paid upfront. And the buyer would be required to pick up the crate loads of test kits from a facility in China.

Yet British officials took the deal, according to a senior civil servant involved, then confidently promised tests would be available at pharmacies in as little as two weeks. “As simple as a pregnancy test,” gushed Prime Minister Boris Johnson. “It has the potential to be a total game changer.”

There was one problem, however. The tests did not work.

Found to be insufficiently accurate by a laboratory at Oxford University, half a million of the tests are now gathering dust in storage. Another 1.5 million bought at a similar price from other sources have also gone unused. The fiasco has left embarrassed British officials scrambling to get back at least some of the money.

“They might perhaps have slightly jumped the gun,” said Prof. Peter Openshaw of Imperial College London, a member of the government’s New and Emerging Respiratory Virus Threats Advisory Group. “There is a huge pressure on politicians to come out and say things that are positive.”

A spokesperson from the Department of Health and Social Care said that the government had ordered the smallest number of tests allowed by the sellers and that it would try to recover the money, without specifying how.

The ill-starred purchases are in some ways a parable of the risks in the escalating scrum among competing governments racing for an edge in the fight against the pandemic.

The still-emerging tests for antibodies formed in response to the virus are the next stage in the battle. By enabling public health officials to assess where the disease has spread and who might have some immunity, widespread use of the tests is seen as a critical step in determining how and when to lift the lockdowns currently paralyzing societies and economies in much of the world.

“You can’t lift the lockdown as long as you are not testing massively,” said Nicolas Locker, a professor of virology at the University of Surrey. “As long as the government is not testing in the community, we are going to be on lockdown.”

The gamble on the Chinese antibody tests, though, is also a barometer of the desperation British officials felt as public pressure has mounted over their slow response to the virus. One prominent expert, Jeremy Farrar, the head of the Wellcome Trust, a British nonprofit that is a major funder of medical research, recently warned that “the U.K. is likely to be certainly one of the worst, if not the worst affected, country in Europe.”

Long before the development of an antibody test, Germany, for example, the continent’s leader in containing the virus, began conducting as many as 50,000 diagnostic tests a day to help trace and isolate cases. That rate is now nearly 120,000 a day.

As of Wednesday, Britain was still conducting less than 20,000 diagnostic tests a day. Having missed a previous target of 25,000 diagnostic tests a day by the middle of April, officials are now promising to reach 100,000 a day by the end of the month and as many as 250,000 a day soon after that.

British officials have said that they started out behind because they lack major private testing companies of the sort found in Germany and the United States, which are capable of manufacturing and performing tens of thousands of diagnostic tests.

But by the time Britain began pushing in earnest to expand its capacity, it was also trailing behind most of Europe in the competition to buy up the limited supply of compounds, tubes and even swabs needed for diagnostic tests to determine a current infection with the virus.

So when the Chinese offers of antibody tests arrived, the officials knew that almost every government in the world was hunting for them, too. Nationalists like President Trump were pressuring domestic suppliers not to sell outside their borders. Oil-rich Persian Gulf princes were bidding up prices.

Medical companies in China, where the virus first emerged, seemed to hold all the cards, typically demanding yes-or-no decisions from buyers with full payment upfront in as little as 24 hours.

The two Chinese companies offering the antibody tests, AllTest Biotech and Wondfo Biotech, both said their products met the health, safety and environmental standards set by the European Union. Public health officials reviewed the specifications on paper while the British Foreign Ministry hurriedly dispatched diplomats in China to ensure the companies existed and to examine their products.

Representatives of both AllTest and Wondfo declined to discuss prices.

Within days of the deal, enthusiastic health officials back in London were promising that the new tests would vault Britain into the vanguard of international efforts to combat the virus.

Appearing on March 25 before a parliamentary committee, Sharon Peacock, a senior public health official overseeing infectious diseases, testified that the tests would require only a pin prick in the privacy of one’s home and would soon be available at minimal cost from either local pharmacies or Amazon.

“Testing the test is a small matter,” Ms. Peacock assured lawmakers. “I anticipate that it would be done by the end of this week.”

After quietly admitting last week that the testing had in fact proven unsuccessful, health officials are now defending the purchase as prudent planning and valuable experience.

It was to be expected, Prof. Chris Whitty, Britain’s chief medical officer, said in a news conference. “It would be very surprising if first out of the gate we got to the best outcome that we could for this kind of test,” he said. “It made a lot of sense to get started early.”

But Greg Clark, the chairman of a parliamentary committee examining the coronavirus response, said the government’s promises appeared unrealistic.

“There is no country in the world that is able to operate in massive scale antibody tests yet,” he said in an interview.

“I think it’s now clear,” he added, “that we should have moved earlier and more expansively to make use of all of the testing facilities that we could have.”

After British complaints about the test kits surfaced, both Chinese companies blamed British officials and politicians for misunderstanding or exaggerated the utility of the tests. Wondfo told Global Times, a Chinese newspaper, that its product was intended only as a supplement for patients who had already tested positive for the virus.

AllTest said in a statement on its website that the tests were “only used by professionals,” not by patients at home.

Doctors say the government’s descriptions of the antibody tests could also be misleading.

By comparing the antibody tests to pregnancy tests, officials seemed to be suggesting the antibody tests would determine whether a patient was currently infected. But a discernible level of antibodies may not appear in the blood until as long as 20 days after infection — meaning a person with the virus would test negative until then.

The British military laboratory at Porton Down is also working on an antibody test, but primarily to help public health officials assess the course of the pandemic by surveying samples of the population, not to inform individual patients. The government is hoping to repurpose some of the stored Chinese-made kits for this sort of population-level testing.

Do-it-yourself pinprick tests like the ones the British government ordered from China are far more complicated and much further off than such laboratory tests, researchers say. It is not yet certain what degree of immunity recovery from a past infection may confer, either.

Rapid antibody tests “have limited utility” for patients, the World Health Organization warned in an April 8 statement, telling doctors that such tests remained unfit for clinical purposes until they were proved to be accurate and effective.

British officials, though, were eager for a breakthrough.

Even in late March, as the pandemic overwhelmed hospitals in Italy and Iran, British officials brushed off the advice of the World Health Organization to expand diagnostic testing as quickly as possible.

By the time Britain began pushing in earnest to expand its testing, every country in the world was competing for the same materials.

To make up the shortfall, academic research laboratories have sought to convert themselves into small-scale clinical testing facilities, typically focusing on the needs of local hospitals.

“If it comes around from the government, all well and good,” said Ravindra Gupta, professor of clinical microbiology at Cambridge University’s Department of Medicine, “but we have to prepare for nothing to come. It would be crazy to wait.”

Cancer Research UK, a nonprofit organization, is converting its research laboratories to conduct as many as 2,000 tests a day. But its capacity has been limited to a few hundred because of difficulty and delays in obtaining scarce materials, said Prof. Charles Swanton, its chief clinical officer.

Even the swabs used to obtain samples had turned out to be scarce, he said, and his laboratory ultimately agreed to pay a Chinese supplier as much as $6 a swab — about 100 times the typical cost. “It took about 10 days to get them,” Professor Swanton added.

The British division of the drug giant AstraZeneca began setting up a testing facility last month for its own essential workers, said Mene Pangalos, the executive overseeing the effort. But at the request of the British government, AstraZeneca and its rival drug company GlaxoSmithKline have teamed up to repurpose a laboratory at Cambridge University to carry out as many as 30,000 diagnostic tests a day by the beginning of May.

AstraZeneca hopes to develop a laboratory test for antibodies, too, Mr. Pangalos said. But that will take until at least the middle of next month, and a home-based test, such as the British government tried to order, would take much longer, he added.

“Everyone is overpromising at the moment,” he said. “I don’t want to overpromise.”

I bet when the documents are eventually made public it turns out Johnson bet the entire government strategy on getting those tests, and it was a reason for a late lockdown.

And he lost.

RedToothBrush · 16/04/2020 21:15

A geographical problem.

Lindsay Beyerstein @beyerstein
Cuomo answered my burning R0 question at today's presser: NY's R0 is down to .9, thanks to NY Pause.

If it rises as high as 1.2, we're back to hospital shortages.

So, we don't have a lot of wiggle room to loosen social distancing yet.

This is a little tweet that's caught my attention.

Over the last two days there's a few questions have been raised about the R value in the UK have been raised in the media. The response has been raised that nationally they believe its 0.6 but there was an important cavat thrown in there that it wasn't evenly distributed and there were questions about what the R value was in places like care homes and prisons. And seeing this tweet has also made me ponder a little.

How much wiggle room does London have?

How much does that differ from the rest of the country?

Is it cities which rely most heavily on public transport and have high density population that have a particular problem.

And is that going to be particularly troublesome coming out of lockdown?

If you've been paying attention today there's been talk about the country having different restrictions in different areas and lockdown being partially lifted in some areas but not others.

You can help but think there is a London shaped problem at the heart of this thinking. And if NY currently has an R value of 0.9 according to the Governor, how much different is London's realistically going to be? I can't see it being drastically lower.

And if London is going to be a particular problem and given how centralised the country is, that causes other issues. Its much harder for the UK to relax restrictions than somewhere more decentralised like Germany. Especially when our outbreak has centred on London.

For example how do you go about stopping someone from London moving to the rest of the country and spreading it if lockdown is relaxed elsewhere?

Economically the heart of the UK is also centred in London which doubly compounds the problem.

The Westminster bubble effect and neglect of the regions comes back to bite us on the arse once again. Politics that won't go away.

RedToothBrush · 16/04/2020 21:20

Unintended indirect effects part 3467

Worried About Coronavirus- thread 37
RedToothBrush · 16/04/2020 21:32

More shortages

www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-intensive-care-drug-medication-shortage-alert-a9468551.html
Coronavirus: Alert issued to hospitals as intensive care drugs run low
NHS says it will take control of supplies for some intensive care drugs as coronavirus demand means some medications are at critical levels

Doctors have been warned that crucial drugs used to help sedate and ventilate patients in intensive care are running out due to the demand caused by coronavirus.

An alert to hospitals from NHS England today said there were “limited supplies” of muscle relaxant drugs atracurium, cisatracurium and rocuronium, which are used during intubation when patients are sedated and paralysed with a ventilator used to help them breathe.

As a result of the shortages, and to help maintain supplies, NHS England said it would now manage existing supplies “centrally”.

Its said supplies of atracurium and cisatracurium were likely to be exhausted in coming days, and hospitals would need to switch to alternatives that were still available.

In recent weeks, doctors have warned of shortages of other key drugs such as propofol, a commonly used anaesthetic, and alfentanil, an opioid painkiller which is used in intensive care.

Overshadowed by talk of PPE, tests and ventilators. Also see shortage of kidney dialysis machines.

Remind me what happens in the second wave again, with more cases using the nightingales and their easyjet crew?

I'm hoping lockdown is longer rather than shorter...

MigginsMs · 16/04/2020 21:47

Very thought provoking @redtoothbrush

refraction · 16/04/2020 21:56

They should be asking questions about that at the presser RTB not when is lockdown over again and again.

thesedaysarescary · 16/04/2020 22:04

@refraction that is what I am screaming at the tv every day. Same journalists asking the same totally pointless question every day. I have been so angry!

pocketem · 16/04/2020 22:05

Even in late March, as the pandemic overwhelmed hospitals in Italy and Iran, British officials brushed off the advice of the World Health Organization to expand diagnostic testing as quickly as possible. By the time Britain began pushing in earnest to expand its testing, every country in the world was competing for the same materials.

This is the most damning part of the story for me. Such arrogance from our UK experts and government, leading to such incompetence.
Even Turkey is able to test twice the quantity we do

IwantKoalas · 16/04/2020 22:33

I've tried to get corticosteroids prescribed and can't because they're not needed right now. One of the things this situation highlights is our not having very easy access to medicines, something I would like to see a change in. We are all adults aren't we

buttermilkwaffles · 17/04/2020 00:35

Early peek at data on Gilead coronavirus drug (remdesivir) suggests patients are responding to treatment.
www.statnews.com/2020/04/16/early-peek-at-data-on-gilead-coronavirus-drug-suggests-patients-are-responding-to-treatment/

HeIenaDove · 17/04/2020 00:56

To quote Victor Meldrew ..................I Do Not Believe It

twitter.com/Turner_Nay/status/1250934130243768323?s=20

ToffeeYoghurt · 17/04/2020 01:06

The Westminster bubble effect and neglect of the regions replace "regions" with "London's poor". Forced into overcrowded housing as a consequence of the bubble. Poverty and poor quality housing increases the risk of underlying conditions, which increases the risks of serious complications with Covid. They're the victims twice over. To add insult to injury at least half the Westminster bubble aren't in London during this. They're safely in their second homes.

The Westminster bubble can't be the only reason. What about the West Midlands and Gwent. Both areas have been badly hit by coronavirus.

Good news that the trials for remdesivir continue, two months after the first reports, to show positive results. I suspect the UK was last to join the queue to order any. I hope I'm wrong but going on the testing and PPE shambles it doesn't bode well. It's as if we went all out to be as incompetent and negligent as possible. I also suspect Boris was treated with it. The antimalarials work best when taken early.

ToffeeYoghurt · 17/04/2020 01:13

I agree btw RTB. For the sake of the millions of vulnerable people in the three worst hit regions alone, I hope lockdown doesn't end early. I don't even want to think about how bad the second wave would be.

The cancer patients are in a catch 22 really. Of course delayed treatment is terrible but then again they're at a seriously increased risk from Covid. And with so many healthcare staff ill and dying from Covid it's a very difficult balance. Possibly they could reintroduce treatments in the safer areas? Awful for patients in London, West Midlands, Gwent, other badly hit areas, but better than nothing for anyone anywhere?

LilacTree1 · 17/04/2020 02:40

Helena IKR?

HeIenaDove · 17/04/2020 02:44

Sorry Lilac Not sure what thats an acronym for.

LilacTree1 · 17/04/2020 02:49

Helena it’s “I know, right?!” for lazy folk like me 😂

HeIenaDove · 17/04/2020 02:51

Oh i see Smile

iWantKoalas · 17/04/2020 02:55

Has anyone cut their hair yet ? I hacked mine to my chin and it felt really amazing to do that, but now it's annoying me again. I'm starting to feel like I don't want any

LilacTree1 · 17/04/2020 03:02

I always cut my own hair but it’s long and curly so easy to do

I’ve got friends who do short hair cuts and they seem to manage fine.

iWantKoalas · 17/04/2020 03:15

I feel like I've just had hair all this time because people expect it

peridito · 17/04/2020 08:28

I keep remembering Jenny Harries (deputy chief Medical Officer) being asked about UK complying with WHO's urging countries to test,test,test .

She pointed out that the clue was in the word "World" and that the UK had first class this and that but that many 3 rd world countries didn't .Implied that the advice wasn't directed at UK but for the less priveleged around the world .

RedToothBrush · 17/04/2020 08:31

Paul Brand @paulbranditv
EXCLUSIVE: Polling of almost 3,000 carers for ITV News suggests the government has massively underestimated the crisis in care.

42% say they are dealing with suspected covid-19 cases. Yesterday the government said just 15% of homes had reported a case.

www.itv.com/news/2020-04-17/exclusive-poll-shows-true-extent-of-coronavirus-crisis-in-care-homes/
Exclusive poll shows true extent of coronavirus crisis in care homes

Paul Brand @paulbranditv
Optima Care, which runs homes across South East, tells us in response to our survey:

“These statistics are shocking. We thought it was worse than government updates based on our experience... this survey shows the situation is significantly worse. This is a ticking time bomb.”

Humphriescushion · 17/04/2020 08:34

Yes perdito, and didnt she say that outside mass gathering, cheltehnham and football eg. were not really risk. Think someone else on this thread pointed that out.

RedToothBrush · 17/04/2020 08:40

We had the usual 8pm Thursday dickhead letting off fireworks last night. I'm wondering how many fireworks they have left / where the hell they are getting them in lockdown now.

But this neatly sums up why the 8pm clap really has started to boil my piss.

It's become an excuse to do loads of the things you shouldn't do and to socialise.

Worried About Coronavirus- thread 37