Worried About Coronavirus- thread 37

[TheStarryNight]

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It's a page or so back but WTAF - a paramedic reporting that 60 year olds have had DNR placed on them by their doctors?! I bloody well hope that was an informed consent. and not palliative care bis shocking

I just read on the Guardian the UK lockdown is only extended for 3 more weeks, does anyone know are we at all likely to lift lockdown in May? I was assuming we were nowhere near it and it would more likely be July /August earliest. Won't people be too terrified to return to work and school in May?

Also the Guardian saying people will now be allowed into care homes to say goodbye to loved ones doing of CV, isn't that a recipe for massive increase in cases (as people wanting to see loved ones will undoubtedly in many instances go in, without PPE available)?

Matt Hancock quite good on R4. He was frustrated with ending lock down questions. Will only talk about what is needed now.

Spanish Social Service Residences have seen at least 11600 Coronavirus Deaths

That does not suprise me starry, France has 6,000 plus and will increase.

Yes I think Matt Hancock is right. We have no idea at the moment when lock down should end.
You know in Italy those cases that emerged of 90 year olds getting very ill with covid 19 and surviving? That was because they were not written off. In the UK they would have died.

The media is annoying me with the reporting starting lockdown lifting in other countries. The measures being introduced in other countries we never had because our lockdown has always been less strict, yet people hear this and expect we will be able to start being normal again in a couple of weeks.

I’m a teacher and scared sh**less about going back to work in a school. I don’t trust the govt have our best interests at heart, the have to balance the economy with all this and, let’s face it, they’re sending medical professionals and carers into their jobs every day dealing with Covid patients without the correct PPE, they’re not going to flinch about a few teachers catching it from schools reopening. I’m very scared.

Tbh I think not letting loved ones in to say goodbye from the beginning was a bit awful. They should have been given PPE and allowed to spend their last minutes with their family member. It just seemed an odd juxtaposition to allow construction workers to throng the tube, but not let one person in per dying care home resident to say goodbye-especially as staff are similarly in and out and in lots of cases.
The horse had bolted a long time ago tbh so that seemed especially cruel to me.

I think the care home figures will be awful, but also under reported. They won't put Covid as cause of death on lots of certificates-it will be whatever the underlying health issue was, or old age. Which might be true but ignores the fact that these people might have had years left were it not for Covid and the lack of PPE etc etc.

I see all social care workers are getting a badge now! Lovely, if it gets my staff their priority shop in Tesco. But it cannot be allowed to replace the long overdue review and rethink of how social care is recognised, organised and funded. I said as much on five live (again!) this morning!

Also a lovely plastics factory owner came on and offered to send us some more robust face masks he has produced-which is amazing!!

@Biggerblackhole - the regulations say that the government must review restrictions every 21 days, so they are saying three weeks because that's the time until it needs to be reviewed again.

MurraytheMonk. You are so right about not allowing the government to get away without a thorough review of social care once this is over.

Hancock's statement yesterday that from now on people released from hospitals to a care home will be tested first.. was horrendous. How could they ever have thought that it was OK to do that. I almost never agree with Piers Morgan but he was spot on about that.

As for the figures. They can put what they like on the death certificates. In the end the increase in the numbers dying in care homes during this period will tell the story loud and clear.

Thank you for all you and your colleagues are doing. Never mind a badge, you deserve a decent salary and proper recognition.

@Reastie The BBC are basically a mouthpiece of the government at the moment. It is totally irresponsible reporting.
I really hope teachers unions fight for their staff. No way should vulnerable staff have to go back or anyone staff member with someone vulnerable in their household.
Which would mean schools would not reopen, because a lot of people are vulnerable.

mobile.twitter.com/BenjAlvarez1/status/1250563198081740800

this is how Kanzlerin Merkel explains 'flattening of the curve' and the delicate balance between lockdown and economy and healthcare needs.

Thank you. I agree people should be able to see loved ones in care homes, but the lack of PE is appalling. Without that surely it puts everyone involved and the wider community at much greater risk. Someone can bring CV in, or take it out. They pop from the care home to the supermarket.. wait a few weeks and its not rocket science to expect an increase in CV cases to result?

Even worth PPE available, those visiting care homes won't have fit tests (those working there probably haven't?) so there I would assume there is still a risk.

As for schools I'm working full time with a child at home but would never push for a return. I would like more communication from the school as have had none at all since the day they were all sent home. But I can't see the logic - if schools go back, all employers will expect staff to come back in and there is then almost no way to really do distancing, it's either lift the whole lockdown or not and schools are at the crux of it.

On the subject of DNAR's I've had a letter from the lung function dept who look after my ventilation/oxygen equipment. It was four pages of very comprehensive information and included the following:

^Because of your existing respiratory failure if you were to contract Covid-19 we would be unlikely to put you forward for full ventilator support therapy. We would therefore recommend that you read the enclosed leaflet and discuss it with your next of kin.
^
The leaflet was about setting up a DNAR

@CharlieTangoBanana That is shocking. How are you?

I don't see what's so shocking about giving medically accurate information to people to ensure they are informed and can make their own decisions about their future care with the time and information to do so. Would you rather not give them this information and then have the heartache of families being told last minute

I'm ok about it, the letter was very measured, full of information about how to protect myself now and beyond lockdown and didn't really tell me anything I didn't already know. I have type 2 respiratory failure so at any time I get a chest infection or pneumonia I'm at huge risk of dying and every time I'm an inpatient my consultant has always told me my biggest risk factor is what I could catch from other patients.

Interesting viewpoint from US GQ

Calling Healthcare Workers War “Heroes” Sets Them Up to Be Sacrificed

In using feel-good military narratives, we obscure the fact that our essential workers are unprotected and unnecessarily martyred.

Starrynight you're so right (haven't read article yet). I've long thought it a bit unhelpful to refer to HCPs as heroes when they never expected to be exposed to such a potentially deadly disease in this way. And I hadn't even thought of that more sinister aspect.

Like referring to people "battling" with cancer.

Did Italy and Spain add care home deaths to their daily tolls does anyone know? Just wondering if they did and we’re not we can’t really compare the data- our true death toll each day would be much higher than theirs. But if they didn’t their is some comparison that can be made.

Have now read it, wow..... essential reading, I'd say.

Makes me even less inclined to bow to societal pressure and go outside and clap this evening. (But may do it as also think it's v good for community spirit and especially relations with near neighbours!)

Just going back to the PM of New Zealand giving up 20% of her salary. Our PM earns in the region of £155,000 - New Zealand's PM earns in the region of £240,000 - so even with her 20% reduction, she'll be earning significantly more than Boris.

New Zealand has a population of less than 5 million, compared to our 66 million. Quite an eye opener actually.

Article on "the challenges of antibody testing for Covid-19, noting that no tests to date have performed well."
www.research.ox.ac.uk/amp/Article/2020-04-05-trouble-in-testing-land?

I've just been looking to see if Italy initially counted care home deaths- I can't find a simple yes/no but lots of articles saying that at least up to two weeks ago, it seems to be no- because they weren't testing post mortem as a matter of course.
Now there are enquiries under way as to how it has spread so much in care homes and they are under heavy scrutiny so lots of post mortem testing happening.

Articles also make the point that no distinction is made between "of" Covid and "with" Covid. No matter how many co-morbities someone has, if Covid was present that's what is going on the death certificate.

Interestingly, there seems to (at least 2-3 weeks ago) been the same reporting delay as in the UK. One article I found talked about a 1-6 day lag.

Re of and with

I think it’s pretty pointless to report “with” and not “of” though of course it serves an agenda right now.