we have now had more deaths from covid 19 than China!

[EricaNernie]

That is so shocking and awful.
remembering how impressed and worried we were about china building new hospitals almost overnight, and the lockdown
and now it is here.

[MangoFeverDream]

So if we never trusted the figures from China and always ‘knew’ they were higher, why didn’t we take action earlier?

Probably people only began to question it with the numbers skyrocketing in Italy.

Here’s a very likely picture on how numbers get skewed from local officials who didn’t want to report true numbers and didn’t test; this is about African swine flu which wiped out a huge number of Chinese pigs last year: www.nytimes.com/2020/01/01/opinion/china-swine-fever.amp.html

A choice quote:

A crisis that might have been manageable quickly became a small catastrophe because of how the Chinese state operates

[alloutoffucks]

Yes because randoms on the internet know better than WHO.
WHO have said that China's figures are accurate. But congratulations on knowing better.

[FrankieStein402]

How can you say china are lying when the graphs show almost exactly the same slopes across so many countries - are they all lying as well?

Look at the published data across all countries - not Facebook - yes there is a campaign but its to deflect blame from the right wing in the US and UK

Again if China was lying why are they easing restrictions?

[alloutoffucks]

And why would WHO say they have looked at China closely and believe China's numbers are accurate?
So basically China and WHO would have to be both lying. Why?

[TestBank]

That 'randoms on the internet' thing again. Did you know people can both be educated and post on mumsnet? Obviously not all posters ...

[alloutoffucks]

Did you know I trust the experts at WHO more than someone on mumsnet?

[Quartz2208]

foreignpolicy.com/2020/04/02/china-coronavirus-who-health-soft-power/

Or it if you dont ascribe to that it could be that when the WHO said that it was based on what they knew then and now figures have changed - certainly they have with asymptomatic cases

time.com/5813628/china-coronavirus-statistics-wuhan/

And that that amount just included those who died from it not died with it. And only including hospital deaths. Remember WHO would have seen what was happening in hospitals and only hospitals - the data there was probably fairly accurate of those who died just from coronavirus. So actually it is perfectly possible that they were both telling the truth about the stats that they had and were seeing but that doesnt show the whole picture.

I think China will to a certain extent have lower figure, less elderly population and once it got going a far stricter lockdown will effect the end figure.

But in the end it comes to this: is it more believeable that China ended up with a number of deaths so much lower than all other countries or that some massaging of figures was done behind the scenes (eg only including hospital deaths where it was the main cause). And for me the latter is far more likely

[ShanghaiDiva]

The Chinese policy was that if you had symptoms you had to go to the hospital for testing which suggests that most deaths would have occurred in hospitals and not at home.
Private clinics were all closed to ensure all potential cases went for hospital treatment. We were informed by our compound mgt that failure to go to the hospital if you had symptoms would result in legal consequences.

[VivaLeBeaver]

What reason would China have to lie? Genuine question

To save face with their own people. Nothing can be allowed which might make their own people question whether officials made the right decisions/were good and strong at defeating this, etc.

[alloutoffucks]

Yes it is believable because China took drastic actions, far far stricter than what we are doing.

[Cornettoninja]

Looking at the stats on worldometer I do think it’s weird how we can clearly see the beginning of a curve in China through January and February.

It was first noticed in Nov/Dec (depending on who you believe) so wouldn’t we expect to start with a high number that declines through February instead of a distinct curve from their lockdown?

[CendrillonSings]

alloutoffucks

It says a lot that you would believe the impossible numbers issued by a communist dictatorship without question, but not trust a single word coming out of the UK government...

[alloutoffucks]

Cendrillon I believe WHO.

And the UK government have only been recording corona deaths in hospitals. Our numbers are higher than the posted ones.

[CendrillonSings]

Do you believe that China had 2.4 deaths per million total, but Italy has 265.8 deaths per million as of today - and still rising? Where is that rigorous scepticism you apply to the UK government?

[CendrillonSings]

Pardon me - Spain has 265.8 / million, Italy has 254.2 / million. Both over 100 times the death rate per capita claimed by China.

[FortunesFavour]

You’re far too credulous alloutoffucks. Current DG of the WHO covered up 3 cholera epidemics when health minister of Ethiopia. He’s just as crooked as his mate Xi Jinping, oceans of blood on both their hands

[Quartz2208]

Yes why do you believe the WHO quite so much they have hardly been brilliant - I have watched the press conferences where they casually thrown out statements such as children have died. They have an agenda too

[MangoFeverDream]

Look at the published data across all countries - not Facebook - yes there is a campaign but its to deflect blame from the right wing in the US and UK

As if the Chinese government is not pulling their own propaganda campaign meant to deflect blame?

[P1nkHeartLovesCake]

China wouldn’t know how to tell the truth if it bit them on the arse!

[CKoRn]

Without a single shadow of a doubt - China is LYING. Data doesn't lie, and China's figures do not fit.

[ShanghaiDiva]

What about Taiwan? With 355 cases and 5 deaths are they also Lying?

[mochajoes]

The Taiwan that China & the WHO don't recognise? the one with the outstanding health care system?

[ShanghaiDiva]

Yes, that’s the one.
Are they lying?

[mochajoes]

Do they have a motive to lie?

[Quartz2208]

there are plenty of rumours floating around that Wuhan is around the 42k mark which would definitely statistically fit (and allow for Europe to be higher as well due to how we have handled it!)

www.businessinsider.com/wuhan-residents-say-chinese-government-coronavirus-death-toll-is-low-2020-3?r=US&IR=T

Its not like it unheard of