What are your thoughts on China ?

[Wetfloortiles]

Very interested in this.

I don't believe their numbers for a start, and I do feel they should take responsibility for this global pandemic.

Putin is also lying about numbers in Russia
It's what dictators do, to cover up their mistakes

Both China and Russia are now trying to exploit this crisis and extend their influence in the West,
regardless of the harm to their own people.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-putin-seeks-political-point-scoring-in-covid-19-world-crisis-11968582

Anastasia Vasilyeva from the Alliance of Doctors union has consistently and publicly called the Kremlin out for allegedly downplaying the number of cases in Russia.

On Thursday, she was arrested as she tried to deliver masks and PPE to hospitals in the Novgorod region.

"The medicine in the country is terrible.
We don't have hospitals, we don't have the staff, we don't have a medical industry,"
she told Sky News two weeks ago.

"Of course it's not good for the government to say we have coronavirus and these are the real numbers of deaths.

It will just prove the fact that they, the government, President Putin, caused all this to happen.
"We'll have a death toll a few times higher than in developed countries because medicine here is so bad."

They’re a communist regime, if you’ve lived under one or know people who have you would know not to trust anything they say.

People showing symptoms were dragged from their homes. Apartment blocks had their exits welded shut, with the people left inside to die. This is just what we know, there was probably far worse happening on a massive scale. They may well have stopped the spread by using these horrific means but there’s no way this would be an option in the west.

They won’t ever let anyone know what they did to stop the spread or how many were infected and died. Everything they broadcast is propaganda, nothing is greater than the state and the state must keep control of the people at any cost.

Twice in twenty years- stands to reason because their population is 1.3 billion. Being the most populous country in the world spread over a vast area of wildlife, the odds are in favour of viruses emerging there more than any other country.

I misspoke on the wet market sentence as the term is not a technical one. Since everyone blames the trade in wildlife, i was meaning to say wet markets that trade in wildlife. My mistake.

There is no evidence that China’s numbers were “totally fake”. None. Until there is, it is only prejudice and bias that has you making such an unfounded allegation.

The government of a country is what to my mind. People die just the same under any government. While government type affects quarantine enforcement and surveillance, it does not automatically mean thar one nation handles it better than another, or that one nation is “lying” versus another.

nothing is greater than the state and the state must keep control of the people at any cost
this^
this is the set up in a dictatorship, the people are the property of the leader do unto as he wishes, the head of state must never lose face, anything that the people do reflects on him and anything that makes him look bad must be crushed.

Plan you need to read this article by the Washington Post. This is where the 40,000 estimated dead are coming from. The allegations are not without merit; by defending the Chinese government you are also trivializing the suffering of the people in Wuhan, more stories like these will come out:

www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/chinese-families-should-be-sweeping-graves-now-but-thousands-still-havent-buried-their-dead/2020/04/03/5a6daa50-7234-11ea-ad9b-254ec99993bc_story.html

I don’t believe anything the Chinese government say. They clearly lied about their figures for a start

I agree.

Whistle blowers in China said they refused to test people, and a lot of the deaths were just attributed to pneumonia. The only way to get a rough idea is looking at the country's death rate for the same period the year before, but they've downplayed it massively.

The evidence though is the rest of the world. China had it running wild for 2 months before they locked down by all accounts so why would there fatality and case rate be so much less.

The alleged 40k Wuhan deaths fits in with how all other outbreaks are going (and by and large they are modelling fairly similarly) given China took a long time to admit and lockdown it makes sense

That would mean the virus was ‘running wild’ back in late November as lockdown started 23rd January,
No information was leaking out to my province (Jiangsu) back then.

LOL, U.K. doesn’t even test people with mild symptoms surely its number is more credible than the Chinese . U.K. government should responsibility for its own failure to control the spread, just look at all the people out about today

The only way to get a rough idea is looking at the country's death rate for the same period the year before, but they've downplayed it massively.

Italy is seeing a spike in deaths that are not attributed to Covid19 here. Like us they aren't testing people who die somewhere other than hospital. There are very few countries that are doing more testing than we are, South Korea and Germany are way ahead of other countries, the States are catching up after a slow start. A week ago we had tested more than Spain or France. Germany's low death rate probably reflect their high testing rate.

For those who thinks there is some problem unique to China that causes viruses to jump species, it is probably worth doing a bit of reading into the so-called Spanish Flu that originated on a duck farm in the US, which they, and other Allies covered up because of the war, that ended up killing 50M people (2.7 % of the entire word's population) because the countries where is first spread did not put in place quarantine because they thought it would affect morale during WW1. All governments, however democratic, try and cover up how bad a pandemic will be.

Yes I thought reports have it starting late November/december

Given virus did start in China (we will never know the absolute truth), they told the world in December and told of it's seriousness, people are dying... the country is on full lockdown. Countries decided not to close their borders until... Feb?

It was a problem for China that other countries knowingly let the inbound of.

A work colleague of mine was traveling last year and was in Wuhan at the end of November and went through the actual markets it was supposed to have started from-in her last few days of sightseeing. She said the markets were fucking horrendous

Before they were due to fly home at the airport they were quizzed about where they had been, have they been suffering from any illness and they also had their temperature taken before they were allowed to board the plane. Two weeks after returning home she was off work with a temperature sore throat nausea and a horrible cough. She was off work for over two weeks. In the few weeks after that three other colleagues went off sick with similar symptoms. None of us including her thought anything if it until a few weeks ago. We all thought it was just a nasty cold/ winter virus type of thing.

My point being, I agree with others China knew about this last year and have tried to keep it covered up.

@Glaceon the Chinese government did take responsibility, they owed up, told the world and showed the world of their full lockdowns. Every other country was basically turning a blind eye to this whilst busy reporting about it but took absolutely no precaution to stop it entering their country and now look.
I just wanted you to have a different look on this because I don't believe China is solely to blame for the virus hitting home.
Stay safe, take care.

Cushion she could have been one of the first here!

That’s the thing though even if UK stopped borders say in January when China locked down it was probably already here.

I don’t deny the West played a role in disbelieving though. Whilst still not accepting that China has been ‘unlucky’ and really needs to stop it happening again in same way.

I don't think we're allowed to talk about this OP....

I wish I could find the post from back in early Feb when I had the flames of hell unleashed on me on the Worried about corona threads for suggesting China had a lot to answer for and that the situation in Wuhan was 20 times worse than the media were reporting, the province was completely infected etc.

A lot of Mnetters said it wasn’t that bad, claimed I was exaggerating (🙄😂 I know) and I’m sure my response was why don’t you take a trip to Wuhan with a box of Lemsip and see how you all get on.

Anyway my point is, now that the chickens have come home to roost is it now ok to blame China for this mess? They intentionally covered up this plague to the detriment of the rest of the planet.

BurgerQuean 100% agree with you.

Ok many of you believe the disease circulated earlier than reported date and it spread to Europe due to China’s cover up. Then here’s the question: why does the world have to wait for China to detect the new virus? Does the healthcare system and labs not work elsewhere that all other countries had failed to recognise and notify WHO before China did? Mmmmm

So it is OK to talk about this? It was on a thread the other day and anything critical of China got slagged off, called racist etc. Yes I think it's obvious that China has lied, and yes I do think they should be making amends to every other country, not just a select few. It was reported in January that a Chinese company in Australia was quietly instructed to buy up all available PPE for shipping back to China. I should think this was repeated in many countries. What a shower of bastards.

It’s China this has popped up in but let’s be realist, it could of happened anywhere.
I think as a species we are lucky more spillover of diseases hasn’t happened more often.
We are increasingly destroying animals habitats forcing them into close proximity it is and treat them cruelly.

We have extremely poor worldwide surveillance of zoological diseases and only piecemeal studies.

Killing bats (and other animals who are a reservoir for viruses) isn’t the answer as they are a keystone species who prevent disease outbreaks from mosquito borne infections, are a major pollinator of plants and protect crops of insect damage.

This video is absolutely brilliant in explaining exactly how this all came about and how bloody preventable it could have been.

I'm furious and hope that at the end of this, the Chinese government are held accountable for the deaths of millions of people.

They won’t ever let anyone know what they did to stop the spread or how many were infected and died. Everything they broadcast is propaganda, nothing is greater than the state and the state must keep control of the people at any cost

And that's exactly why most Chinese individuals are as much victims as the rest of us
At least in the west we can lobby our MPs, petition or even openly criticise something the state's done; try that in China and see where it gets you (as all too many can attest)

Morrissey got slated in 2010 for calling out the Chinese on their animal treatment. He had a point but no one dared agree.