Narcissistic ex is "shielding" should he see dd

[kipperthedog]

Hello all, hope everyone is keeping safe and well. My narc ex is extremely difficult and is using the current circumstances to be even more so. He's putting demands on me (and therefore dd) to protect his own health and making this time extremely stressful. His demands should go without saying such as distancing etc but he always makes out I'm a bad parent and wants it in writing that I agree to these things. Having spoken to her this morning, he says he's had a text to say he has to stay in for 12 weeks. As a chronic asthmatic I assume this means he has been told to "shield". My question to you is should dd go to his next week for 10 days as planned? He has no outside space so she will be cooped indoors apart from daily exercise - which if he adheres to the advice he won't be taking. As far as I can see he should be isolating from her.

Any advice welcome thanks

Actually, having just reread your original post, you just assumed he was shielding.

I wouldn’t send an email opening up discussion about it again. Just leave it now. You’ve made your decision and stated why. Now you need to stick by it. Any further justification from you will come across as weakness and your exe will jump on that and he will start chipping away at you again.

I really would call his bluff regards him taking you to court over this. I think he will quickly come to realise that you haven’t done anything wrong. He really has done a number on you these last few years hasn’t he? Stay strong and use this situation to your advantage! 💪🏻

Contact him to say that DD is available for FaceTime if he would like to but don’t be drawn in to anything further.

@Soontobe60 because exe gave OP a long list of unreasonable demands that OP and DD had to follow and give written confirmation to exe that they had adhered to to ensure that exe wasn’t at risk. He told DD that he had received a text and that he would have to self-isolate for 12 weeks. Then he backtracked on it all when OP expressed concerns about DD going if exe was vulnerable and self-isolating. Plus DD actually didn’t want to go and was pleading to stay at home.

@Soontobe60 yes as @Rollergirl11 says he gave a list of demands which I had to agree to to keep him safe and how I acted with dd would have ramifications on his health and possibly his life. He told me he had recently had a chest infection and had steroids. He referred to "extremely vulnerable people" in relation to advice for measures to use when dd staying with him. He told dd he had a text to say he isn't allowed out for 12 weeks. Having done some research this all points to him being in the vulnerable group and the advice would be that she isn't moved to his house. He then didn't answer any of my questions/concerns saying basically that his health and what happens when dd in his house none of my business. He said not vulnerable and is fine. No idea what to believe...
I'm also v concerned what would happen if dd went and he got it and needed to be hospitalised (v likely). The advice would be she stays put if anyone displaying symptoms but in that case it wouldn't be possible unless she stayed with his partner which I wouldn't be happy with. So she would then risk bringing the virus back to me & siblings. Also, in the scenario that she went and he got it and subsequently died is it fair to put that on her? She would feel guilt forever even if unfounded.

I have let others go to their dads as he has no pre-existing health issues and we are able to communicate clearly.

@Rollergirl11 I've sent him an email to say that I'm sorry we can't agree what best, I know that she loves him and it's important for her to have contact and does he want to suggest a regular FaceTime pattern.

Awaiting reply. I do think he's going to go down the court route but I will just have to explain myself and see what the outcome is. Tbh I'd rather someone else decides as I don't know what to believe as far as he's concerned.

Sorry about all the bold no idea how that happened!

www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/advice-for-people-at-high-risk/

www.asthma.org.uk/coronavirus/

Is he a severe asthmatic in which case look at the asthma.org it clearly states he should be shielding.

Now if it turns out he has played up how asthmatic he actually is in order to control you that is on him. But I think you need to read through the above because it clearly shows based on your true belief he is asthmatic you made the right decision.

Because if he is asthmatic you did make the right one. This time is full of awful and hard decisions where people dont get to see their loved ones for a short amount of time.

Well done OP. You've had some great advice on here.

I really would minimise further contact with him. IF he does head for court then the fact that he claimed to be in the shielded group, then abandoned it when it suited him should be enough for any judge to see that you are being a responsible parent in protecting her child from potential harm in the face of a man who manipulates and tells lies. If you repeatedly engage in discussions with him, then it allows him to look for a "gotcha" in anything you say.
Remember the Mumsnet mantra: NO is a complete sentence .

His initial tactic was to use his own ill health as a way to control you and demand that you followed his instructions exactly, but this backfired because his ill health gave you justifiable grounds to keep your daughter with you and away from him.
As soon as he saw that he was out manoeuvred he tried to backtrack which just made him look worse but having nowhere else to go he kept on doubling down and digging a bigger hole for himself 🤭

www.judiciary.uk/announcements/covid-19-national-guidance-for-the-family-court-message-from-president-of-the-family-divison/

www.cafcass.gov.uk/grown-ups/parents-and-carers/covid-19-guidance-for-children-and-families/

Read these and refer to them if he issues an application.

Those things he said to DD were highly inappropriate. Tell the judge and ask for an undertaking that he not discuss the dispute with her.

Family Courts ARE open, in that they are operating but the front doors are shut. A very few have shut but their business has been taken over by neighbouring courts. Those wanting to issue an application can do so by post. All hearings are by telephone. I'd be surprised if he got a hearing in 48 hours. He'd have to prove it was urgent (ie imminent risk of harm).

@Quartz2208 thanks for the link. He is asthmatic of that I am 100% sure as he always has been, and quite badly too. On this basis I would think it is severe yes but he is denying that and I have no way of knowing unfortunately. He did tell me he has had a recent chest infection and took steroids. I guess the fine line here is whether or not he is officially classed as severe or not. From his early demands he has acted as though he is in that bracket but now says not...

@truthisarevolutionaryact thank you for your message. What you say is completely true. He's very clever and manipulative and plays on my emotions. I'm so grateful for the advice I've had on here, it's totally got me through these last few days when I've been feeling literally like my brain is melting!

I need to practice saying no and meaning it. I'm a worrier and easily swayed

@UYScuti nice to hear your words, you've been a rock for me during this. THANKYOU! Yes I think you're right. He didn't expect me to stand up to him.

The only one I'm worried about now is dd who is confused. I've tried to reassure her but difficult when I don't really know what's happening in terms of when she will see her dad. She's been bright and chirpy today though and we've had a fun day which hasn't been TOO overrun with me being tied up in knots which is nice. He's going to FaceTime her again at 7 this eve. Hoping he won't say confusing stuff to her again. I will be listening and recording.

@TooTrusting thank you for those links. V interesting.

I imagine he will be the one who has been tying himself up in knots today for once trying to get court sorted. No mention of it yet though. Hoping he doesn't say anything to dd.

Thanks for your support

he told you he had a text, he is in your eyes a severe asthmatic I think you have totally made the right decision

@Quartz2208 yes that's true he did tell dd that. He did send me the text which didn't say he had to shield but it's possible he could have had more than one text isn't it..

I feel sick at the thought of him being on FaceTime on my house every day for the next while but it's a necessary pitfall or keeping dd safe here I suppose.

Thats kind of you to say Kipper thanks:)
Glad you're ok and I hope things improve over the long term, now that you've been able to get ahold of the situation maybe he will realise that his best option now is to play nice!?

I feel sick at the thought of him being on FaceTime on my house every day
might sound daft but some kind of ritual where you 'clear' the device (eg restart it) may help you to feel more in control, or some other way to signal that when the call is over he is gone from your space.
Light a candle, play a piece of music etc, whatever most 'speaks' to you

@UYScuti thank you, unfortunately I very much doubt it. He's been like this for years and will never change of that I'm sure

@UYScuti get my voodoo doll out maybe..

I find it's always best to keep your voodoo skills updated:)

So another long FaceTime. One or two snipey comments but nothing major. At the end he told dd he has been doing lots of form filling today and is working hard to get her back home as soon as possible and will come and collect her soon.

I'm really worried about court; I can't afford to have a solicitor represent me so will have to do it myself.

Isn't it damaging to her for him to refer to his house as home.. like he is coming to rescue her from somewhere she is trapped. That's how he made it come across..

Sitting here reflecting on the call. So many little things thrown into conversation that he knows will get at me. Even done in front of his partner, almost so subtle that he wouldn't pick up on it. Like dd said mum is going shopping tomorrow, and I said I think the local shop deliver so I may get them to, and he said oh that'll be good at least your mum won't have to leave you on your own again: dd bless her said I wasn't on my own I was with my brother.. (who is 16). He's such a vile person, he's like a virus himself or some sort of mould you can't get rid of. Poor dd none the wiser really but I can only think (?hope) it all sinks in over time and she will realise what an arse he is.

I feel she's really confused at the moment and doesn't know what to believe.

You can keep her at home. He's making unreasonable demands/expectations for her to behave at yours - screen shot his texts- which is a lot of scary pressure on a child/not in her best welfare interests. He can FaceTime her.

Anyway here is legal position as it stands, click on the purple text which are links. Second paragraph is particularly relevant to you.

Government guidance on staying at homee* says: "Where parents do not live in the same household, children under 18 can be moved between their parents' homes."

However, the Family Division of the High Court has said that, in England and Wales, if one parent is worried that moving their child would be going against public health advice, they may "exercise their parental responsibility and vary the arrangement to one that they consider to be safe", even if the other parent does not agree.
Where this is the case, family courts will expect parents to allow contact by video chat or phone.