To feel sorry for Boris Johnson

[LonerGirl]

I know people didn’t have a high opinion of him, tbf neither did I before this, but he’s doing his best. He’s doing what experts are advising him to do. He’s ordered temporary hospitals to be built & thousands of ventilators, asked for help through NHS volunteering.

I think he’s coping okay despite his wife being pregnant too, now he’s unwell himself.

What are your opinions?

I don’t want any fights or arguments I’m
Just curious to what others are thinking

I hope he gets well soon, as would I of anyone who gets ill.

How did the U.K. government chose advisors that disagreed with most of the leading experts in the world on how to deal with Covid 19? And then belatedly realise that actually the other experts were right?

This puts him in the "inadequate professionally" category, for me.

As a person, he's someone I'd go out of my way to avoid given his previous behaviour and morals.

X-posted, that was for bear.
I asked you, if neither of those arguments (Brexit/email cock-up), both cited by gvmt sources over the last few days, was accurate, what explanation there might be as to why opting out of procurement could be advantageous to the UK.
I've not seen an answer yet.

if it suits you and others to blame all this on the Tories then I guess you just have to get on with that

Bear As the tories have been in power for 10 years and underfunded the NHS and are currently in power..... who exactly do you think any criticism should be directed towards?

A lack of PPE equipment almost 3 months in, is inexcusable, as is testing NHS staff and not testing community deaths...

in fact the latter might be so BJ can claim credit when this is over for a far lower death rate than comparable countries?

Just seen this retweeted by the Daily Mirror's Political Editor believe it or not:

Your regular reminder that Twitter does not represent the country.
New. And wow.
Conservatives 54%
Labour 26%

"No conservative government has ever had such a poll rating"

72% satisfied with Johnson
73% satisfied with the Gvt
77% satisfied with @RishiSunak

auld, I haven’t answered because I’m unclear which you are citing as the actual reason here - did we not see the email or did we decide to opt out because of Brexit

I’m challenging both and asking why you’re so determined to believe either when they are in fact mutually exclusive

I’ve also asked what was advantageous in opting into an EU scheme to produce, as yet unbuilt ventilators, as opposed to producing own

I think you just need to accept the fact you’re determined to believe whatever suits your narrative

bear
The fact that they are mutually exclusive does indeed suggest that the truth will never be known.
Which, in the current circumstances, when trust in public authority is key, is worrying. If the gvmt is not doing all it can to obtain vital equipment during an emergency, we need to know why.

I am still asking, since we seem to agree that neither is a valid reason, what a valid reason might be for not participating.

EU procurement wasn't to build ventilators but to source them from countries that do build them and, through bulk ordering, get them at lower prices.

The EU is also sharing equipment and beds: Germany has sent ventilators to France. French and Italian patients are in hospitals in Germany, Luxembourg and Switzerland, to ease pressure in overstretched areas.

I think you just need to accept the fact you’re determined to believe whatever suits your narrative

Pot and kettle spring to kind there *Bear" i wonder if you would also defend his "its fint to shake hands with CV patients" and "Take it on the Chin" strategy ?

Regardless, stay well to you and yours and hopefully we will all emerge into a different if not better world, we are not going to agree here.

Regardless, stay well to you and yours and hopefully we will all emerge into a different if not better world, we are not going to agree here.

Same to you and yours jas 😌

@Oohhaveabanana hear hear!

While I hope he recovers quickly (if indeed he has cv I too am sceptical) if only because we need a properly visible leadership - other than that no sympathy for him or his like. Very much the architects of not only their own political destruction (we hope) but huge numbers of the populations serious hardship and possible destruction.

A decade of denigrating, undermining and underfunding not only the nhs but social care and civil service generally but expecting those people all to step up now they're deemed crucial!

@housemdwaswrong totally agree with your post too. Instead of trailing other countries in reaction he could have learned from them and done better. Italy now highest rate of Coronavirus in the world presently and our numbers look to overwhelm that in coming weeks largely because of johnsons INaction.

I posted elsewhere about the current cabinet being woefully inexperienced/unqualified/poor track record in the roles they're in.

And it's not just the nhs I've a brother in the police force they're not being given the right equipment to protect themselves either and the govt was disgustingly slow in giving them powers to deal with the arseholes flouting the rules to keep us all safe and even deliberately coughing and spitting in their faces.

As an ex civil servant myself I find it hard to believe that there wasn't a comprehensive "just in case" pandemic plan created by previous govts that his should have referred to. There's usually contingency planning for EVERYTHING in my experience I used to be amazed the kind of things there were plans for.

It's pointless arguing with cendrillion she would defend Johnson/tories to h

Gah posted too soon

Cendrillion Would defend to her last breath

Co-operation hasn't run that smoothly in Europe though:

""6 March BRUSSELS (Reuters) - EU officials sought in vain on Friday to persuade France, Germany and other European countries to lift controls on the export of protective medical gear, which officials said could hurt the bloc’s collective effort to fight the coronavirus."

"9 March German customs authorities have blocked the export of a truck filled with 240,000 protective masks to Switzerland, which Swiss authorities have said is part of a broader export ban on protective gear."

"Switzerland has called for an emergency meeting with the German ambassador about the issue. As reported by the NZZ, State Secretariat for Economic Affairs (SECO) on Sunday called upon “German authorities to release the blocked masks immediately”."

“It can’t be that Germany is holding back products for Austria just because they happen to be stored in a German location,” Austrian Economy Minister Margarete Schramboeck told reporters in Vienna. “These products are for the Austrian market, and unilateral moves by Germany are just causing problems in other countries.”

"March 14 Germany, under EU pressure, amends decree on exports of protective equipment."

Corbyn - frankly ANY of the other major leaders - would have moved sooner and initially been criticised for it - for catastrophising, then they would have been proven right.

Germany has sent ventilators to France.

This is exactly what I mean about people seeing things the way it suits them.

Germany has about 50% more cases than France and 3 times what we have.

If we were in Germany’s situation, would you honestly be advocating us sending ventilators elsewhere?

I think the sad fact here is this is just like the stockpilers - too many people’s first instinct is to look after number 1 when in fact the better choice is to ensure there’s enough to go round.

Corbyn - frankly ANY of the other major leaders - would have moved sooner and initially been criticised for it - for catastrophising, then they would have been proven right.

The government's initial plan of action was agreed in cross-party talks.

bear
Germany is handling things better, has fewer cases who need ventilation and can spare the ventilators for now.
Partly because they took appropriate steps at the right time and have a health system that is well-funded and works.
They wouldn't be sending ventilators to other countries if that meant their own patients were dying. Are you seriously suggesting otherwise?

And you still haven't answered my question. But I'm off to bed now, so no pressure...

Corbyn - frankly ANY of the other major leaders - would have moved sooner and initially been criticised for it - for catastrophising, then they would have been proven right.

People aren’t listening now

They are bleating already and this could go on for months yet

More restrictive measures any earlier would have just exacerbated that

auld I’m not sure what question you are asking me.

I don’t believe either story as they are mutually exclusive and are both click bait

If you provide me with conclusive proof that one or the other is true, I’ll comment

As it stands I see no point in focusing on an option which didn’t come to pass when we’ve already sourced alternatives

The only 'good reason' for voting tory at the last election was if you wanted to Get Brexit Done.

I'll be willing to bet my last loo roll that a lot of people are regretting that decision or if not yet, will be very soon.

Wrong again - hand over that loo roll!
Actually, it’s ok, I’ve got loads 👍

Number Cruncher Politics UK
@NCPoliticsUK
NEW: Our latest voting intention figures

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@Helmetbymidnight I gotta say rory by no means a "cuddly" Tory he has some serious flaws too

Re Cheltenham - its only been just over 2 weeks since the races. The incubation period can be as long as 2 weeks and those with mild symptoms who are going untested may not realise they have it and continue to expose others who will then take a further 2 weeks to display symptoms so actually we don't know the effect of this decision yet

I've friends and family in various European countries who are utterly stunned at the lack of proactive govt here. Who are messaging and asking me if certain news items are true because they're so nonsensical they're thinking they're being pranked or it's satire!

Rishi is competent but his ethics are questionable, not only as a Tory but his past actions prior to going into govt too.

I strongly believe the reason people haven't listened to and followed instructions is because the language used was too ambiguous!

People are sheep if you ask them to do something they'll push the boundaries and find excuses if you TELL them (and back that up with clear, visible enforcement authority presence with the powers to sanction severely) the majority will do as they're told!

When I first heard of that PATHETIC fine of £30 I laughed - I live in a poor deprived area yet people round here won't think twice of spending that on a takeaway it's certainly not enough to make them stop and think not to do something like congregating on the beach! Should have been something like £200 from the beginning

I am not sure how anyone can say Boris seems like a nice person if they know his history (conspiring to have a journalist beaten up which was caught on tap just one example)
He is a dreadful PM but oh well at least he is charismatic and appears to be trying hard.

And oh well, he isn't the former leader of the opposition who would definitely have done everything worse, probably on purpose because he is THE DEVIL, and practically nobody would vote for him right now if the general election were tomorrow instead of five years away. So that proves conclusively that the government is doing the right... er, what again?

Those of us who didn't vote for the present administration (which, let me remind anyone who needs reminding, does not necessarily mean we voted for THE DEVIL - other options did exist!) are often accused of not getting over having lost. It seems more as if those who did vote for the present administration can't get over having won. They certainly feel the need to go on and on about it, in what seems to me a very Trumplike manner; as though having won the election was all the proof needed of competence. Well, it ain't. If they're being a bit shit they are being a bit shit, and pointing to who else might have been a bit shit if they had the chance is meaningless. I'm quite sure if THE DEVIL were in charge today and were being a bit shit most people would have no problem at all in saying so.

@Anniegetyourgun

(I agree with you. And with @Seawitchly. I hope BJ gets better, but while he may be having to actually do some work at the moment, which is maybe what people are so surprised/pleased about, that in itself doesn’t make him a good PM).

bear
You don't think either of those two explanations (Brexit/cock-up) is valid.
(The fact that they are mutually exclusive doesn't mean neither is accurate, but we'll let that slide for now because it's awkward for supporters of BJ to admit.)

You stated that there must be a good explanation for not taking part in procurement, because the gvmt would not knowingly have acted that way if it had not been in the people's interest.
So there must be an explanation: not one of those two explanations, but another one.

My question was: what might that explanation be?

Those two explanations were put forward by members of the gvmt, not journalists. The journalists quoted them.
If the UK gvmt are foisting clickbait on the public, it's worth wondering why. What are they not saying? Why would either of those two potentially damaging, even criminally negligent, explanations be preferable to the real one?

Saying "it didn't happen so I can't see the point in discussing it now" is odd when you simultaneously discuss what would have happened if the opposition had been in power. That didn't happen either, after all.

In this particular instance, however, what didn't happen was participation in a collective project that could have helped very ill UK citizens get acces to vital equipment faster and cheaper than by asking Dyson et al. to build from scratch.
So, even though it's sth that didn't happen, it's worth discussing why a competent gvmt and PM would have acted thus. It's disingenuous not to.

Dyson donated cash to the Tories, simple as.
I do hope when this shitstorm is over, that the blocks that is HS2 is stopped and the billions that that will cost is spent far more wisely. Investing in local transport for example.