Spain: this is what happens when you close the schools

[Hopeisnotastrategy]

murciatoday.com/murcian_government_decrees_enforced_quarantine_of_a_guilas_san_pedro_san_javier_los_alca_zares_cartagena_la_unia_n_and_mazarra_n_1353560-a.html?fbclid=IwAR0iqy14FgcHMXspstqQKdALOm-xMVg5S9qkgIV4P8FC55gMNaPf750XlJA

Families leaving Madrid and heading for the coast are spreading the virus throughout the country. A week ago the province of Murcia was only getting its first case of coronavirus.

Are any countries closing their borders? None in Europe that I know of.
Countries in Europe are closing their borders!

Imo schools should close.

Children might get it mildly, but most of the staff where I work are 40s, 50s, 60s.... And coughing children unsurprisingly are still being sent in despite government advice.

I have no doubt that economic and political reasons are behind the lack of closure.

Here is what is happening with childcare in France.

Everyone who can is working from home, so those people are looking after their own children.

One parent in each household with children under 16yo is eligible for sickness benefit from the government so that helps a bit as more people can afford to take time off work (not sure if this applies to self-employed).

Childminders are still working.

A teacher is still available in every school and will look after the children of people who have no other options, including people working in emergency services. Class sizes will be kept very low 8-10 kids.

Agree lockdowns need to be enforced with closures of public parks, shopping mall, beaches etc. ShanghaiDiva you are spot on- sometimes tough decisions have to be made because people are too naive. This is serious/ it is not a holiday ! UK government is in denial and will regret it further down the line...

U.K. is taking further steps. There may be lockdown for over 70 and others too.

Those in Ireland, are people who cannot wfh still going in? Who is taking their dc?

Watch Pandemic on on iplayer. This is what the government are basing their figures on.

But the contain bit As shown on the programme hasn’t worked as it should have. So I’m not sure what happens now.

But watch the difference that frequent hand washing makes. It’s staggering.

@alloutoffucks is there a deliberate attempt here to spread lies

No. This is a deliberate attempt to pass on facts. Please take a break from reacting and go and search out some factual information from reliable sources.

For those who are finding it hard to understand the approach UK is taking (and are worried we are doing nothing), this is a good explanation: twitter.com/STVNews/status/1238468179036459008?s=09

Remember this is a staged approach. Timing is dependent on the actual circumstances in your environment (including unfortunately the chronic pressures on the NHS) Demanding UK "jump" in to the extreme measures now because Germany has decided to do it is not a responsible course of action. For a populist like BoJo this must be killing him!

I strongly recommend everyone who is worried to spend 20 minutes seeking out some info from on if the UK CMOs or clinical directors and then decide if you still think UK are doing nothing.

(if you decide UK are doing the wrong thing that is fair enough. If you're a public health expert or epidemiologist. If you're Nigel Farage or Brenda from down the pub then I'm going to take your views with a large dose of "ok then")

Griefmonster - Science doesn't stop at the english channel, so its reasonable to ask why almost all countries in the world have introduced measures far in excess of the UKs.

Hancock says we have 5000 ventilators but needs many times more, say 25000? JCB, RR etc have been asked to make these, now that will take months, even if they could get the parts electronic/screens etc, train staff, build new production lines....

UK starts from having only 25% the critical care beds Germany has...

The UK peak is also expected to move from May to April as their modelling has proven to be wrong... oh but they are planning on requisitioning land for graves and relaxing crematoria rules.....comforting isn't it?

@griefmonster. 100 scientists have signed a petition to the govt to ask them to reconsider this policy because it's batshit. This includes the head of the Lancet. The WORLD HEALTH ORGANISATION is telling them to stop pissing around. Trust me, this is not Brenda down the pub.
All these experts advising the govt come from one specific research school, the LSHTM. It's literally one school of thought, and the basis has not been clearly explained. Until we see their working data and not just 'trust them, they're experts' I'd rather look at the actual real evidence coming out of China on what works.

@jasjas1973 @Pluckedpencil
Yes there are experts who disagree with the approach (or their perception of the approach) but that is a very selective interpretation of the criticism.

WHO have NOT criticised the UK approach. They don't do that. They advise on what they observe as working and draw general conclusions. It is some posters on here that have decided that was criticism of UK. It's like someone with really low self-esteem overhearing 2 people talking and assuming it's all about them...

And Richard Horton is not without (significant) controversy: www.independent.co.uk/news/media/lancet-back-at-centre-of-controversy-419683.html

I thought the WHO had criticised the UK’s approach

@MarshaBradyo would you mind linking the 70s lockdown thread? thank you!

*Hancock says we have 5000 ventilators but needs many times more, say 25000? JCB, RR etc have been asked to make these, now that will take months, even if they could get the parts electronic/screens etc, train staff, build new production lines....

UK starts from having only 25% the critical care beds Germany has...*

I agree. The situation in Italy re ventilators has been (or should have been) known about for weeks and weeks. Ventilators should have been ordered weeks ago. More analysis and direction for day to day life is needed so that people know exactly what they are expected to do in every respect, in every aspect of their lives. You are still getting threads which suggest that people think that it is only the over 70s and those with comorbidities etc at risk.

Griefmonster

Govt admits we don't even have the equipment required, Germany ordered 10k ventilators weeks ago. Meanwhile we are asking JCB to stop making diggers and make medical equipment and comparing it to the 1916 shortage of munitions.........FFS

@theEmoji - you would think that from the chat on here but I can't see any evidence of it. Also interested in the scientists saying the UK approach is batshit. Who are they and what are they saying? There's a difference between saying our timing is off and our approach is nuts. Or indeed saying they don't understand the approach and so what to see the basis on which decisions have been made.

I'm not saying you have to agree but I do think you should be informed. Give me an evidenced criticism from an expert and I'll take that - that's how science works. Shout about theories you've seen online. No thanks.

Keeping up to date with the latest evidence is literally underpinning the UK approach. Go look it up...

@jasjas1973 You are criticising UK Government asking for more medical to be made? I don't understand.

I have said already UK are having to time things to take account of the chronic pressure on NHS. That is the reality UK is in. UK is not Germany.

@griefmonster she is saying the government should have ordered more ventilators weeks ago. I am not even sure if this has been progressed now. I know that the rest of Europe is finally on the case, but one country was blocking it or something

@liberoncolours ah right. Ok. Would love to see some reliable references for all these assertions..

I'm at the point where I'm desparate to see the Venn diagram between anti-vaxxers, flat earthers and people who would rather believe the UK is (willfully?) cocking this up.
Thousands of people are actively working to make the best of an unprecedented public health emergency based on the best evidence available in the circumstances they are in.

Off to buy a dumb phone so I don't get tempted back on to these threads ...

@griefmaster what assertions about what? What I said was on Reuters. I live in France and am reading the live updates and the govmt websites. If you think the accusations about cock ups are to do with flat earth or antivaxxers you are seriously misinformed.

Read the news and listen to real life testimony from the mainland.

I spoke to a ventilator distributor who said manufacturers were mainly in china and lead in times were 2 weeks based on normal circumstances, not expedited but equally there are now unprecedented numbers of orders from US, Germany and Italy. I don't know re UK.

griefmaster you say "this is UK" but this is now the time to be thinking about creating more beds. This is all practical and realistic. I am really not sure where you are getting the idea that this is to do with conspiracy theories. It is to do with being organised and forward thinking.

@liberoncolours I was talking about @jasjas1973 assertions.

I am not misinformed. Just chosing my information sources carefully. There are people on here who appear to believe there is a conscious decision by UK Government to ensure mass casualties or that UK are "doing nothing". I don't believe there is any basis for those assertions and have asked people to check the actual public health advice and to be cautious about where criticism of that is coming from.

@liberoncolours there are thousands of people working on practical contingency measures in UK. Right now. But the noise about "we're doing nothing!" "They don't care if we all get it" is drowning this out.

I am attempting (perhaps badly or futilely) to reassure people that this is NOT idiotBoJo bumbling about ineffectively or sinister BoJo trying to kill lots of people. It is an evidence-based staged approach to manage a complex situation in a chronically pressured system.

@griefmonster, it really doesn't matter what their motivation is at the moment. They need to be seen to be ordering ventilators and opening up beds so that lives can be saved. Whether strategies are right in the UK re herd immunity long term are right or not.

@liberoncolours And I'm saying why do people think this isn't happening already?