Spain: this is what happens when you close the schools

[Hopeisnotastrategy]

murciatoday.com/murcian_government_decrees_enforced_quarantine_of_a_guilas_san_pedro_san_javier_los_alca_zares_cartagena_la_unia_n_and_mazarra_n_1353560-a.html?fbclid=IwAR0iqy14FgcHMXspstqQKdALOm-xMVg5S9qkgIV4P8FC55gMNaPf750XlJA

Families leaving Madrid and heading for the coast are spreading the virus throughout the country. A week ago the province of Murcia was only getting its first case of coronavirus.

The point is not how many deaths you have today (and I'm not even going to talk about numbers of cases as the UK basically has no idea how many cases it has because it's not testing except hospital admissions), it's how quickly that number will rise with no action taken. The people dying today were infected around 3-4 weeks ago and have been infecting people ever since.

One week ago, Spain stood at 589 confirmed cases and 10 deaths

There are 8744 cases today in Spain.

@birdandsparrow. I don’t know where this myth that the uk is not testing comes from

The "myth" is because multiple people are ringing 111 with symptoms and being told they are not testing.
Oh and some on BBC news said they are only testing those in hospital.
We are not making this up.

@alloutoffucks but look at the latest WHO data for testing. We are number 5.

@alloutoffucks Look at the data!

I thought it would be mayhem in France but it isn't, so far, as since then more information has been provided. It is the schools who are looking after health care worker's children, under strict conditions. Like a pp we have had lots of communication from the school and have an online learning platform to use. I think that stricter measures about lockdown will be imposed on Paris at least because the young Parisians expressed their need to have a social life by congregating in large numbers outside yesterday...

@bool Fuck that means we have a lot of people in hospital with these symptoms and given the date of those tests means we are going to quickly have an explosion of cases and deaths. Thanks for that graph, it really worries me.

That is dated March 12th @Bool. That will be the stop testing date .

What is actually happening is the UK government wants to blame 'media hysteria' for its decisions at this point instead of admitting it has been wrong from the start.

So far the US suburb where I live is a ghost town, and the downtown area was empty all weekend too. Schools and libraries and all other public facilities were closed on Friday ( including the ice rink). Restaurants, coffee shops, bars, wifi lounges, all closed to walk in customers as of today.

There are no groups hanging around anywhere.

@mathanxiety agreed. I just said the same to my DH. The govt are piggy between scientists and public demand, so when we ever get back to normal and there's the inevitable 3 year case review and public enquiry they can't be blamed as they were following the science (and there's very little as it's a new virus) and responding to public demand.

@ShanghaiDiva I am sorry if you have covered this before, but could you just explain the timeline in china that you experienced - when the isolation measures were put in place, when you left (you aren't there and your dh is somewhere else too currently?) what communication you have had and the affect on illnesses as you experienced it, ie the success of isolation? Thank you!

That is NOT what happens when you close schools. At all.

That's what happens when thick, uneducated, self-entitled, arrogant, selfish or deluded twats decide rules don't apply to them and do their own thing, risking everyone else's lives.

I am not in Hubei, so my experience is for Jiangsu province.
School closed for new year holiday on 23rd January and has not reopened. Same for all schools.
We had rumours on 23rd that virus was spreading and by 25/26 everything was shut (a lot of shops were already shut for the holiday) cinema.cafes, restaurants, gyms etc. Supermarkets were open and so was the pharmacy. It was compulsory to wear a mask to enter the supermarket.
Private health clinics were closed (opened about 45 days later) and if you had symptoms you had to go the hospital to be tested.
Movement then became more restricted in early Feb with no access to compound if you are not s resident and quarantine measures were put in place if you travelled between provinces and towns eg travel from my city to shanghai you would be quarantined for 14 days.
The govt extended the holiday, but all office workers went back to work on 24th Feb.
Measures were tough, but we were allowed outside with masks and no shortages of food. It was a bit bumpy in the beginning but the supply chain soon adjusted.
Seven weeks on and restrictions are being relaxed - restaurants open !
However, the Chinese are incredibly worried about the virus coming back so restrictions for those of us returning are very tough With compulsory quarantine even if you have no symptoms and you may not be able to quarantine at home. Criminal prosecutions will be. Implemented for people who do not comply or falsify their travel history.

@shanghaidiva do you think people are resigned to the fact we will be living like this until a vaccine?

My city is now a zero case city and we had 93 cases (population 7 million ) and no deaths.
I don’t know anyone who has had it or been ill.
Temp checking continues and you have a code on your phone to access the metro etc- green code and you are good to go! Code can be changed to red if, for example, you have a uk travel history.
The govt kept us all informed (in English) re what was happening, but restrictions and rules changed quickly as new problems appeared eg people bringing virus back from overseas.
I am in the uk now as we left China for a planned holiday as restrictions stated and could not get back. My dh is in HK.

@shanghaidiva Thank you - in case anyone is interested France is doing similar now. Gardens are fine as long as there is some distance. There are very clear guidelines about what we can and can't do accessible easily on the net. We are being asked to stay home if at all possible and have a list of things we can go out for which is essential work, essential family stuff, food and pharmacy, and we are permitted to go out for walks and runs for health reasons and dog walks provided that we are on our own, keep our distance from others and for this and everything else we need to carry a sworn statement about who we are, our identity details and why we are out. School in constant communication. We are being kept up to date with government measures and statistics. Face masks are being supplied to pharmacies for indiv use if we have to go out and are ill.

@bool my personal view is that it will depend on what happens with the virus, it won't necessarily be difficult until there is a vaccine, it will depend, and that the situation will be better in countries where there are short terms very strict and enforced controls and evidence of very good organisation on the part of the government - is my personal view. The announcements last night were quite detailed and have been followed up today with forms etc online.

@Bool
For those that stayed in China, the situation is improving all the time. Restaurants open, working etc, and hope that schools will open soon so it’s much better than it was. The attitude in the east is very different with many people prepared to make personal sacrifices for the good of the whole of society.

*short term not terms

This is why measures have to be well thought out.
School closure works when parents can be off work too, but everything else is closed as well.

I forgot to also say that the government in France has also pledged financial support and is explaining how it will work, and also thought through (it appears) how problems with utilities, charges, etc will work so as to try to reduce panic.

The bit about gardens was to do with the other thread, someone had asked about gardens.....

@Lweji
Agree.
But having seen Boris et al, am not sure they are well thought out.

I said on a previous thread that when this happened in China I was glad not to live in a democracy. According to some posters this made me a moron. However, having seen the confusion now in the uk re guidelines and what people should or should not be doing, I stand by what I said.
We knew exactly what we could do, people complied and measures seem to have been effective.

Shanghai this guidance is chaos I agree. The amount of threads about people not complying are astounding. People don’t get it.

It doesn't have to be either non democratic China or blundering idiot Johnson.

Within a democracy isolation and mitigation measures can be put in place to slow down the spread to manageable figures, or even to virtually zero.
But governments have to consider minimizing the impact to livelihoods and ensuring that people comply.

From my experience here in Portugal, with exceptions, the community spirit is working well and social disapproval has had a strong effect on social behaviours.
I'd say that for the most part, society has been ahead of the government in asking for stricter measures.
I don't know how this will pan out, but one thing is for sure, this will set apart the Churchills from the Chamberlains.