Spain: this is what happens when you close the schools

[Hopeisnotastrategy]

murciatoday.com/murcian_government_decrees_enforced_quarantine_of_a_guilas_san_pedro_san_javier_los_alca_zares_cartagena_la_unia_n_and_mazarra_n_1353560-a.html?fbclid=IwAR0iqy14FgcHMXspstqQKdALOm-xMVg5S9qkgIV4P8FC55gMNaPf750XlJA

Families leaving Madrid and heading for the coast are spreading the virus throughout the country. A week ago the province of Murcia was only getting its first case of coronavirus.

Did you not see Matt Hancock on Andrew Marr? They are doing these things. They will be cancelling routine ops like knee and hip replacements so they can use the operating theatres for extra bed and ventilator space. They have ordered more ventilators and looking into ways the UK can manufacturer their own. What else do you want to see? A purchase order form?

If others countries are doing so much better than us then maybe they can lend us their unused ventilators. Oh, wait...

@Griefmonster

The peak is likely to be in the next few weeks, the virial spread has been known about, lets be generous and say end of january... so 6 weeks ago... only now looking at and it is just that "looking at" getting more equipment... we have known the UK has not had this sort of equipment for years, with most trusts running at 95 to 100% before this crisis, it was ignored by DC, May and now Johnson.

Today, we are told emergency legislation to be published by the end of the week... the govt response is snail like....even now, there is no priority testing for NHS workers who may be self isolating for no good reason plus the lack of SSP for NHS zero hour staff/social care workers, lack of PPE equipment, no action on the vulnerable homeless... this is just criminal negligence.

It really is indefensible.

Stupid not to be testing all emergency service and health workers with symptoms.

@jas it really is not criminal negligence. Crack on if that's what you want to believe. Or spend a bit of time finding out more about who supports the approach. I was on twitter and saw a tweet from an "expert" with a stock profile photo and 45 followers saying she was working with medics from around the world and they all thought the UK was insane. I chose to take thatcriticsim like with a pinch of salt.
This woman though, seems to be a bit more credible: twitter.com/ViralRNA/status/1238933743404036103?s=19

I know who I'm listening to. Do you?

Someone has started a thread planning to end their life because of their fears about COVID. Some people are spreading an atmosphere of fear, panic and distrust. Please PLEASE take a look at what you are posting and ask yourself if it is adding to healthy scientific debate (I doubt it or you wouldn't be on Mumsnet) or if you are adding to people's worries based on hearsay. And with that, I really am out of this.

Grief - you've completely missed my point... IF their approach is correct, then all the things i listed earlier should have been done long before now.
That they haven't been, regardless of the approach taken (UK vs ROW), is criminal, more people will die because equipment wasn't ordered and policies changed when they should have been.

Then there is the stopping of general testing....

You crack on defending this basic mis management!

@mathanxiety that's great advice from the government. Good luck to you all

*@mathanxiety *
Are you still in the US ?
How are things there ?

Grief,

At the moment, those who are finding discussion damaging to their mental health should avoid it.

There are many legitimate views and I think 100,000 deaths is the fantasy view and at least a million will be the final outcome (and maybe many many more) unless we radically change our strategy. You, of course, are entitled to disagree.

@griefmonster your link - Dr Elisabetta's tweeted statistics and comments generally seem to conflict with what doctors and nurses at the front line in Italy are saying in their videos and recordings. I am not trying to be challenging, just wondering what the point of her tweets are, do you think - is she saying that the doctors and nurses in Italy who are making videos, one of which is tweeted in your link is all made up? Is she saying that they are not short of ventilators and beds? That it is all staged? If so why are mainland europe governments instructing lockdown because they think what is happening in Italy will reach them?

@rainbowpenguins I was posting about ventilators Friday night, having spoken to distributors before Hancock's interview. In the reuters release there was no mention of the UK ordering, and you can see that what Hancock is saying - asking UK companies to start producing ventilators, is a world apart from ordering them from existing manufacturers. In his interview today he said "It is pointless acquiring new ventilators without enough highly trained staff to operate them” but actually people can use ventilators at home.

On Sunday, the number of cases of Covid-19 across Spain stood at 7,753 and 288 deaths. One week ago, Spain stood at 589 confirmed cases and 10 deaths. From the Guardian.

medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca?fbclid=IwAR1JsDGhfk4sS5MY5Eeac8dap5Db0hDO02NotUXHAwLiailn6wG6V3ZgTIk

How many deaths does the Uk have right now? 21?

I'd like to get the stats on the virus in the different countries- those who have it / those who have died RIP as a % of the population. It might give a clearer picture on what country is winning the war on Covid19

so italys number just doubled how was the lockdown helped that

Because it takes about a month from infection to death (if you're going to die) it will take a couple of weeks of lockdown to see the rates drop.
Imagine how many more there would be with people still interacting and infecting each other.
medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca

“The key principles from WHO are intensive surveillance,” he told the Guardian. “You test the population like crazy, find out where the cases are, immediately quarantine them and do contact tracing and get them out of the community. This deals with family clusters. That’s the key bedrock of getting this under control.”
This was how South Korea, China, Japan, Hong Kong and Taiwan had brought their case numbers down. “You can really take people out of the population and make sure they are quarantined. That is vital – before you get to social distancing.”

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/15/coronavirus-health-experts-fear-epidemic-will-let-rip-through-uk

Costello thinks we will be in the same position as Italy within two weeks. “The basic public health approach is playing second fiddle to mathematical modelling,” he said.

I'd like to get the stats on the virus in the different countries- those who have it / those who have died RIP as a % of the population.
But countries have different information. The UK is barely testing anyone at all, so we know our figures aren’t accurate. Other countries are temperature testing several times a day.

@LadyEloise
Yes I am.
In my state all schools still left open at this time will close on Tuesday. The governor is considering closing all restaurants/bars/bowling alleys, etc. Locally, the public schools and all private schools (RC diocesan, Lutheran, Montessori, Waldorf, and preschools and daycares) all closed late last week, with arrangements made for students receiving free or reduced price school meals (breakfast and lunch) to pick up non-perishable food packs to last the week from a van at each of the schools. All sports and other extra curricular activities are cancelled. All off-campus classes are cancelled - this includes certain hands-on classes that are vocational in nature (the public high school offers a very comprehensive vocational selection including certified nursing assistant certificates) as well as all the alternative school locations in specialised settings for students for whom the main building is not an appropriate learning environment.

Teachers in elementary schools provided paper packs and suggestions for online content that students can tackle while home. High school class content is available online via Google classroom. Attendance will be taken by means of logging in, and the GPA system means that students will be inclined to keep up with 'classroom' attendance from 8-2 daily and keep on sending in work. (Up to now, most homework was submitted online anyway, so this won't be all that much of a change). All the public high school and middle school students locally get a chromebook each from school every year, and there is a helpdesk available 24/7 normally, to give tech help. Students won't be hogging the family computer or iPad therefore, and even families with multiple students will have enough devices to go round.

Courts have shut or have gone on seriously limited schedule until mid April. No weddings from tomorrow in courthouses, for example. Only criminal trials entitled to quick trial and federal trials are going ahead, along with petitions for orders of protection and child neglect, abuse and endangerment cases, along with criminal arraignments. Civil cases and divorces are simply postponed. They have yet to announce that select hearings may go ahead via skype or other tech means, but this is a possibility.

All sports fixtures and large gatherings like concerts, recitals, etc have cancelled as of last week. Major sports organisations have cancelled all games - hockey suspended and baseball may not happen at all for the coming season. A huge university basketball tournament that dominates TV in March is cancelled.

Universities have announced campus shutdowns. Classes are online from now until the end of the academic year in most cases. DD4's friends will be able to travel to their campuses to retrieve belongings they left in their dorms before Spring Break started a week ago, and their classes will resume as soon as professors can get online content up and running. Lab classes as currently understood are cancelled. For seniors, graduation events may or may not happen. Arrangements for final exams are TBA.

People are working from home as much as humanly possible.

The local major international airport is experiencing massive delays in customs and immigration as travelers return.

So pretty grim really. And confidence in our spray tanned fool of a president is even lower than before.

Oh and the local RC archdiocese has cancelled all Masses as of Saturday. Last weekend it was no sign of peace or communion from the chalice. No idea if we will celebrate Easter in the church this year.

Even as late as Tuesday of last week COVID-19 wasn't really on the radar. By the end of the president's speech on Thursday my local Walmart was heaving and there wasn't a single roll of TP to be found, or bottle of bleach, and no hand sanitiser, or Lysol spray. Walmart employees wheeled a cart stacked with boxes of items to the household cleaning section when I was there and just left the stack for customers to open, instead of trying to stack shelves. People opened the boxes and handed out items to others who called for them. It was all quiet and self organised (and bi-lingual, Spanish/English), no mad rush or jostling. I bought a few essentials including a container of Tylenol and headed to another shop for two x gallon bottles of bleach, one for me and one for DS (not living at home). DS scored two packs of TP on Friday evening elsewhere after queueing for one and a half hours in a line that extended all around Costco that morning to no avail.

I went grocery shopping on Friday evening and saw evidence of bulk buying in the meat section and the fresh bread section. The fruit and veg sections looked fine. There were milk and eggs aplenty.

Many people had covered their faces with scarves, some with masks.

@daisypond which countries are temperature testing do you know and how does that work, if your temp is high you get tested for the virus?

Hong Kong is.
My dh has his temp taken when he leaves the hotel, arrives at work, enters a restaurant, arrives back at the hotel.
He has been living in a HK hotel for over a month.

Thank you mathanxiety.
The UK are taking a different approach. Schools in the North still open.

The British approach.

edition.cnn.com/2020/03/13/uk/uk-coronavirus-response-boris-johnson-intl-gbr/index.html

www.france24.com/en/20200315-insufficient-and-risking-lives-experts-take-aim-at-uk-govt-s-coronavirus-plan

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8111859/WHO-questions-UKs-approach-herd-immunity-amid-coronavirus-fight.html