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Gobsmacked by UK response

746 replies

Aspoonfullofjam · 12/03/2020 17:03

Stay at home for one week if you’ve a cold (even though all evidence is that incubation is two weeks)

People over 70 don’t go on cruises.

WHAT!!!

134 new cases in a day and no action. 13 EU countries have closed all schools, another 11 partial closures but apparently no action needed in Uk.

Jesus.

OP posts:
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9
TheElementsOfMedical · 15/03/2020 07:22

You do not need to praise China to slam Boris Johnson’s response.

Great, let's apportion the relevant amount of blame to China for being the source of this pandemic, and agree on its numerous and sundry other abuses.

Now, what the fuck do we actually do about this disease here in the UK, and should our actions be influenced by not wanting to emulate China's in any way, despite their success, because if we do that means we support everything China have done in the past and causes moral taint upon us?

Suggestions?

buttonmoonb4tea · 15/03/2020 07:27

I'm so terrified, the UK government does not have a handle of this at all.

Soon we will be the epicentre, and any economy the government is trying to save will tank as the rest of the world won't do business with us.

MangoFeverDream · 15/03/2020 07:38

not wanting to emulate China's in any way, despite their success, because if we do that means we support everything China have done in the past and causes moral taint upon us?

I have only been talking about China in the context of the coronavirus. I’ve only talked about their failures in context of the wildlife trade and coronavirus. I have not brought anything else to the conversation.

I’m not really sure though, to answer your larger question, that the Chinese model, after they acknowledged what was going on, is going to work in a freer society.

Japan is a better model, and terms of U.K. geographic size (they are an island too) might be a better way to go. They have closed schools but it’s not as popular move as you might think since parents still have to work so younger kids are getting clustered in private care centres (hygienic and well run with proper social spacing) or cared for by grandparents.

Their school year ends in March, so when they are scheduled to start up again in mid-April (maybe) will be interesting to see what they do.

ChillinInMyBacta · 15/03/2020 08:55

This gave me a laugh on a troubling subject. Dark humour, but insightful.

Hagbeth · 15/03/2020 09:03

They’re trying to flatten the second peak later in the year. If you look at the Spanish flu pandemic, the second peak was the biggest by far.

Gobsmacked by UK response
MrsMGE · 15/03/2020 09:05

I get the emotions are running high as it's a difficult topic that might affect a lot of us and our loved ones in many different ways.

But let's not go off topic here and derail the thread into a discussion that won't take us anywhere right now.

The question is, what is the UK Govt going to do now - we have to wait for a further update and I personally find it disturbing no one between Johnson, Hancock and the chief medical experts/scientists spoke out yesterday. This is not the time to hide away from people.

You look at the threads on here and it's clear without clear guidance, people have very mixed ideas as to how to act now, some of them not very wise and actually going against the very basic guidance we do have.

I think the point is this - the guidance is very basic, we all have to listen to it. On top of that, we can do more and this is what our energy should be focussed on.

What do you do to help more over and above the bare minimum you are required to do, to make sure we're all safe and the NHS can survive?

I'll kickstart - we shop for all elderly people in the family and asked them to ring us if their neighbours need anything. We told them to stay at home as much as possible and we visit every few days by standing outside, approx. 5 metres away and having a chat to make sure they are not completely lonely and upset. We call every other day too. Food is dropped off by the door by us, no direct contact.

We reviewed our cupboards and listed what we could use up without the need to buy anything extra. We then bought some extra tinned veg and frozen meat cause this is all we needed. Point is, start with what you already have, this way there will be more left for others in the shops, to just top up what they have too, not buy out the entire shelf.

It's very difficult to find wipes and sanitisers now. I took some leftover antibac surface spray to work. I still have to be in the office, but I wipe surfaces around me every day as soon as I come in (I have my own office, my team comes in to report though). I'll be watching my team very closely first thing tomorrow and send them home asap if I see or hear anyone being unwell. The company has a limited sick pay policy on full pay in place, this is regardless of the virus.

At home, we wash our hands every time we come back to the house, before and after using the toilet, before and after prepping food and before eating. Bathroom door is left ajar so we avoid touching all but necessary surfaces before we wash our hands.

DH and I have also saved up a financial buffer - not for the coronavirus, but because we thought it's a sensible thing to do - as general rainy day savings and extra savings towards a new car. We understand this might be used up were things get more difficult. But I'd strongly suggest those who might be at risk of no money coming in for a period of time at least try to save up a bit now if they can - every little helps.

I would have thought this is common sense, although some will probably disagree. I also think the Govt should be issuing a far more detailed guidance because many people either can't think too far ahead or are used to doing the bare minimum only - but the Govt doesn't appear to want to do this. What I think is needed is to start thinking of this problem as one for all of us, we are a community and we have responsibilities over and above what BoJo does or doesn't say. That's what we think, at least.

nellodee · 15/03/2020 09:07

They're trying to flatten the second peak by making the first one so big everyone is in it!

TheMemoryLingers · 15/03/2020 09:10

Isolation for over-70s 'within weeks'

Why is everything this government is supposedly doing 'within weeks' and not now?

How many people will be dead 'within weeks'?

I'm sick of this vagueness and fannying around when decision and clarity are needed.

buttonmoonb4tea · 15/03/2020 09:25

Exactly @TheMemoryLingers nothing seems to be imminent

Wannabangbang · 15/03/2020 09:28

Theres no transparency at all, everyone i know is actually confused, including me. Supposed to be banning mass gatherings but marathons etc are still going head. So basically we waiting for severely ill and dead in huge capacity, how is that supposed to help the NHS.

Please tell me and when are they going to shut all schools or is that after all the over 60s poor teachers are dead?

What happens when NHS workers all catch this which they will with it going round en mass.

Don't get what the f* is going on and quite frankly i fear for society and large whilst Boris just says be prepared to lose loved ones. Wtaf it's like Hitler all over again, a mad scientist. Please someone sensible, a scientist perhaps clarify exactly what good can come of this.

Other countries think we are off our rocker and quite frankly i think we are right.

This aint no normal flu either

TheMemoryLingers · 15/03/2020 09:30

Just popped up on BBC feed - "UK Health Secretary Matt Hancock has said the outbreak is the "biggest public health emergency in a generation".'

No shit, Sherlock. Do something about it then, FFS.

Loppy10 · 15/03/2020 09:36

The Sunday Times article today makes sobering reading for the government apologists on here who were insisting our special British scientists know better than every other world leading expert across the globe:

Coronavirus death toll leaps — and forces Boris Johnson to act

Boris Johnson ordered fresh action against the coronavirus last night amid fears that the pandemic is spreading faster than anticipated.

Johnson will chair a meeting today that is expected to impose the new rules this week — two weeks earlier than his scientists had expected last week.

As the death toll in Britain hit 21 yesterday, after doubling in four hours, the prime minister ordered the government to accelerate plans to make the elderly and vulnerable stay at home possibly for several months and force whole families to self-isolate where one member has symptoms.

The prime minister acted after experts warned him that the virus was spreading more quickly than their models had predicted, with at least 1,140 people having now tested positive in the UK.

Leaked documents showed that the police are drawing up plans to investigate only crimes involving loss of life.

Army chiefs are planning to deploy thousands of military police on the streets in the event of civil unrest and to use the armed forces to guard overcrowded prisons and erect field hospitals.

Such is the pressure on the NHS that in a change to national guidance, medics who have had close contact with infected patients are now being told to keep working unless they get symptoms.

MrsMGE · 15/03/2020 09:37

I am disgusted if this is true, they treat elderly people as collateral damage. Many will die for other reasons or through loneliness if only they are told to self isolate for "many months". This is completely different to the whole country pausing for 2 weeks-1 month, they will feel pushed aside while life will continue for everyone else. It's awful. And I cannot understand how this is better than introducing very strict measures for everyone like all other countries did? We're now undermining everyone else's efforts too.

I can't believe this Govt is still doing nothing. Thursday next week is way too late for any legislation, and they still didn't say when it would become applicable.

Hancock on a morning TV show selling his vague thoughts. Where is the official line of communication from No 10?

And apparently it's not about herd immunity anymore. This Govt is running around like a headless chicken, lost, confused and with no idea how to sort out this major mess they've already contributed to. Very, very worrying.

Clavinova · 15/03/2020 10:12

Hysterical forum posters like Jeremy Hunt, the director of the World Health Organisation and the editor of the Lancet?

The editor-in-chief of the Lancet has quite a back story though:

He was heavily criticised for publishing and delaying the retraction of Andrew Wakefield's MMR/Autism paper from The Lancet.

In 2005 he published an article supporting Professor Sir Roy Meadow who had been charged with serious professional misconduct in the Sally Clark trial; "this was especially controversial as the article appeared whilst the GMC proceedings were still under away and was published on the first day of Meadow's defence."

He accused George Bush and Tony Blair of "lies" and "killing children" in Iraq. Iraq's health minister later confirmed that the estimates in The Lancet were an "exaggerated number."

In August 2014 The Lancet published "An Open letter for the people of Gaza" criticising Israel in the wake of the 2014 Gaza conflict.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Horton_(editor)

And last year he tweeted unpleasant remarks about Boris Johnson and Matt Hancock before we had even heard of coronavirus.

BlackCatSleeping · 15/03/2020 10:16

It’s a farce.

I’m so worried about my parents. Self-isolation is going too far considering they weren’t even thinking of banning public events a few days ago. They need to be allowed to go to the shops and go for walks.

TheElementsOfMedical · 15/03/2020 10:16

Oh here we go 🙄with wordcloud-blame-the-messenger-multipurpose-mediaist-er.

MarshaBradyo · 15/03/2020 10:17

Honestly not enough, too far.

This is it. The action that will have an impact.

BlackCatSleeping · 15/03/2020 10:22

Even in Italy they are allowed to go to the shops, right? Who is going to be dropping off their groceries and medications? What about people who live in remote areas? It makes no sense whatsoever.

MarshaBradyo · 15/03/2020 10:24

In Italy many went to be with their elderly parents to pull together after the lock down.

Which is the opposite of what we need to do.

MrsMGE · 15/03/2020 10:27

BlackCat - yes, they are, my elderly family members in Milan are indeed allowed food and medicine shopping with intense social distancing measures (there are literally separation lines painted on the streets, special queuing systems and only up to a certain number of people allowed in shops at any one time, depending on their size). The UKs response is entirely wrong and ill-conceived.

Sunshine1239 · 15/03/2020 10:44

Locking down the elderly is the best plan

1 in 6 over 80 who get infection will die
In Italy they had 3-4 x the ventilators we had and doctors there have admitted they had to deny treatment to the elderly to give to the young

We have admitted that that may be case here

Italy’s death rate was due to health services being over run by elderly too quickly

So why wouldnt we protect them through isolation? the vast majority of deaths are in that age group

MrsMGE · 15/03/2020 10:51

Because isolating them entirely over a significant period of time will result in their premature death for reasons other than the coronavirus. 1. - they'll be less likely to/have no one to ask for help with getting food, medicines or when they're unwell. 2. - they'll be lonely and feel pushed aside which at this age has serious repercussions on general health. 3. - Some will become seriously mentally unwell as a result and commit suicide.

This is NOT the problem of the elderly, but of all of us. We should all be taking active steps to minimise long-term impact on all of us. The way to do this is to impose significant restrictions on everyone, for a shorter period of time.

Sunshine1239 · 15/03/2020 10:56

We all isolate and virus wont away! We can’t isolate for 18 months til we have vaccine

We need to stop this now

Lockdown slows rate of transmission now but it won’t stop it and they’ll have to come out eventually ..,

PoisoningPigeons · 15/03/2020 10:57

TBH I think aiming to insulate the elderly from COVID is actually sensible (see, I can support some things the government says Wink) with caveats:

  • it has to be properly thought out e.g. carers, food supplies, mental health - so not just a headline soundbite.
  • for the best chance of compliance, there needs to be a lot more emphasis and honesty on the death+complication rates not just for the elderly but for all age demographics, so people can understand that this helps everyone.
  • this measure should probably be voluntary though very heavily encouraged, again for the best chance of compliance and minimisation of distress and upset (which itself could kill some elderly people).
nellodee · 15/03/2020 11:01

Why does the government think this is spreading faster than expected when if you plot it on a logarithmic scale, it's close to a perfect straight line? If an A-level maths student can predict it, why can't they? And why do they think it's spreading slower in this country than in the rest of Europe when OUR exponential graphs is steeper than Italy's?

Lies and spin.

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