Childminder intending to still charge in case of setting closure

[TooGood2BeTrue]

Our childminder has told us that in case her settings will have to be closed because of the virus she will continue to charge parents. Just wondering if this is legal? We only use her for a few hours each week, and it wouldn't break the bank, but I'm a bit annoyed by this TBH. I read that customers who bought tickets for cancelled events are entitled to refunds; is this really so different?

Do you want your child to be able to continue to use the child minder after they re-open? If you don't pay, they may either close down due to lack of money, or may simply refuse your child and take someone else's child instead.

If there are plenty of child minders with places, then fair dos, don't pay and don't go back. But otherwise, I think compromises are going to have to be made.

Well presumably if she stopped charging she might struggle to pay her mortgage/rent.

Presumably you'll still continue to be paid by your employer if you have to self isolate, so yes I think she should too although if she's self employed does she have any kind of insurance ?

You will have to decide whether to give notice and risk your child's place not being available when she is able to open again, or to pay whilst she is not operational. If I am unable to work due to the virus I will still need to be paid, how is it any different for her?

You’ll have to look at your contract.

what are the terms of the contract.
you need to study those, if they were written.
but i guess this is such an unusual circumstance that it may be unclear.
do they have a clause relating to closure due to sickness, or similar.
if you can afford it, and you think your child is well suited there, i think you should pay to continue.
there may be greater things to be concerned about...

It’s tough, I see both points of view. The crux of it is I won’t be able to charge my parents (I assume they’ll think like you) but I will lose my income/home and my business will fold.

The nurseries round here have been sending letters home to this effect. Most of them aren't covered by insurance for having to close due to Coronavirus so they're a bit stuck. It's a rotten situation.

I don't use a childminder, but I will be happy to continue to pay DD's fulltime nursery fees in the event of a closure to ensure that the wonderful women who care for her (no doubt for feck all money) won't be out of pocket. Obviously, we're lucky in that we would be unlikely to lose income ourselves and even if we did a month or two would be ok - I'm not saying for a second that everyone will be in the same boat in that regard and people can only pay what they have. But I don't think it's so unreasonable for providers to expect payment.

If you still get paid why shouldn't she? She can't help it and still needs her income.

I wouldn't be happy but then if I had to self isolate I'd be on a much lower income (SSP isn't much), dh would get sick paty from his employed job but would lose a lot of money from his self employment (he tutors from home).

If you get paid then you pay her. Why should you benefit? Also if you don't pay her and she goes out of business what will you do afterwards?

Those saying that I would continue get paid myself - this only applies to (most) people who are employed (I am freelance myself). She is self-employed, and I don't see how it's any different to others who will be forced to stop working because of the situation (builders, delivery drivers,...)? If we can't work because the kids are at home, we have to take a paycut ourselves in order to supervise them. It therefore doesn't seem fair that we should be paying for a service that can't be provided.

What does it say in your contract? Ours says that the charge is £0 if they are closed, so I'm not expecting to pay and will claim back what I've already paid if needed. I hate to do it, but if self employed DH is off and not being paid AND we have to pay childcare, we can't pay our rent.

Does your childminder charge if they're off sick or on holiday? Or for bank holidays? If not, you probably shouldn't be paying if they close due to coronavirus.

You don't have to think it's fair, you just have to decide whether you are going to pay her and keep your child's space open, or give notice and risk losing it.

We are not her employers, but customers. Hence we are not required to give her sick pay or paid leave. I'm not saying that we can't afford it (although this might change if the situation continues for months); it's the principle that counts in my opinion. I think it would help if someone with a legal background could shed some light on this. And if big events are cancelled and people request refunds they have no qualms about the organisers lost income either then?

My childminder charges when DD is off sick or on holiday. She doesn’t charge when she closes her setting due to her own sickness or holiday (except, oddly, she does charge for bank holidays).

I can also see both sides. On one hand, I don’t think self-employed people should expect to cherry-pick the benefits of both employment and self-employment. On the other hand, childminders are hardly lazy fat cats. My childminder is excellent and works very hard for (mostly) low pay and DD adores her.

It’s an all round awful situation but there will be lots of them in the coming weeks.

From what I understand she won’t get paid at all as insurance won’t cover it so she might go under if parents don’t pay her regardless. Don’t smugly think that there are lots of childcare options available so you can go there because if the worst happens and several childminders and/or nurseries do go under, then you might not have the option of childcare because everyone will be after what spaces are available. Childminders talk to one another so if you are considered to be someone who helped put one out of business, another one might have loyalty and not want to take on your child.

I agree with your childminder. Check your contract, but if you want to keep your spot, then you pay for it, as you would if you were using a nursery.

If you want someone with a legal background to discuss it with, take your childminder contract to a lawyer. What people are saying here is pretty common knowledge I thought - that in order to be able to reopen after a shutdown, childcare settings are likely to continue to need to charge parents. The fact that this doesn’t put you in an impossible financial position means that you are much better off than many families.

We will most likely continue to pay because she is great with the kids. It still doesn't seem quite right to me though that she was so blasé about still charging in the event of a forced closure. I think she should sit down with all the parents and meet somewhere in the middle...

I’m lucky, as in theory I could work from home most of the time. But not with a two-year-old running around shouting, climbing on my desk and trying to type on the computer.

If parents stop paying, the childminders might go out of business. But if parents can’t work without childcare, they’ll run out of money to pay the childminders. Let’s hope it never comes to that.

If you’re content to give up your child’s place then do that and don’t pay. If you’re happy with the care, want to continue to use it after all this blows over and can afford it then I’d pay.

Whether it’s legally enforceable depends on what your contract says.

I did speak to a lawyer informally and she thinks it will come down to force majeure in these circumstances.

I need to speak to my insurance again (who incidentally won't pay out of I'm forced to close) but I am not choosing to close.

I'm considering offering half fees, although some of my parents have said they will pay full and others are expecting not to pay.

The simple fact is if I close I can't afford to reopen so they either pay up or I close.