Childminder intending to still charge in case of setting closure

[TooGood2BeTrue]

Our childminder has told us that in case her settings will have to be closed because of the virus she will continue to charge parents. Just wondering if this is legal? We only use her for a few hours each week, and it wouldn't break the bank, but I'm a bit annoyed by this TBH. I read that customers who bought tickets for cancelled events are entitled to refunds; is this really so different?

Would you not expect to be paid if your work sends you home?

Jesus people are SO GREEDY!!

Poor childminder is running a business

I’m absolutely concerned for people in your situation if this happens IntermittentParps (see my posts upthread). I’m not sure what the answer will be, but the policy the OP’s childminder has stated is common to all the childcare settings that I am aware of, and I would expect that other professions and industries, or the government perhaps, will need to develop their own policies if such an unprecedented situation goes ahead. It’s not in the national interest for millions of self-employed people to be thrown into financial hardship

@bulletjournalbilly if work send me home then I'll happily pay, in fact, I'll pay a bit extra for goodwill. As thats unlikely to happen considering there's a shortage, then it's not something to really consider. I've paid about 2 and a bit months worth this year when DS hasn't been in as he has been poorly, as the cookie crumbles. For some people it's not affordable, that's why the harsh truth is its worth consulting someone to make your contacts water tight.

I think wherever financially possible we all need to continue to support small businesses that we value, otherwise they might not be around when this is all over.

This. We need to pull together, surely. Maybe I'm biased because I've come to love and care about the people who've looked after DD over the years. Some of them have been life-changing for her. And she has SEN so that's important.

If she's a great child minder, who you value, who cares about your child and you want to use after this is done, and you can afford it, why not? If she's shit and easily replaceable, why haven't you replaced her?

This is where small business will suffer. If the childminder doesn't have money coming in, it's likely she may have to close and look at other employment when she can. Although some parents might be in a similar situation, whereas a one working family might have to rely on ssp and not be able to pay the childminder whilst on sick leave. It's very much a catch22 situation. I think I'd continue to pay if I could afford to. At least you know that your place is guaranteed when/if it reopens.

Would you not expect to be paid if your work sends you home?

If work dried up & we were sent home we would be put on short time. We would get statutory Lay Off pay of £29 for 5 days maximum. After that we cold either sit it out or apply for redundancy.

If we had to self-isolate or were sick as I said before we would get £18.85 per day. My workplace actually has insurance in place to cover SSP so they can pay it even if they have no funds coming in from customers.

If you still get paid why shouldn't she? She can't help it and still needs her income.

It depends on the circumstances and if she gets full pay and the parents only get SSP. The fees I pay alone would far outnumber SSP and that's just for one of the children. I would be a bit pissed off if after explaining that I can't afford it due to the massive drop in wages that I still get charged full whack. It would say a lot really. Even if my CM gets half pay from everyone it would be far more than her being on SSP alone. I would go halves, but to take full pay while your families are struggling on SSP is a bit off, especially since you are apparently supposed to care about the childs wellbeing! Yes it isn't their fault, but it isn't ours either. There needs to be compromise. I foresee there being a lot of issues with childcare in the next few months and a lot of places being changed.

If she didnt close, and if your child caught it from her (or other child in her care|) and gave it to you, then you would have to stop working anyway to look after them/yourself - so either way you need to make a prevision.

Well presumably if she stopped charging she might struggle to pay her mortgage/rent.

I have heard that they are bringing in mortgage breaks to help those struggling to pay a mortgage, not sure about renters.

I'm a self employed tutor and currently having the same worries myself.

It's quite likely one of my pupils, or their families, could be infected. In which case I should self-isolate. But if I self-isolate, I would get zero income. Not even SSP.

Re this situation, if I were employed and still being made for being off sick, I would have no qualms paying my childminder. But if I were self employed, as I am now, and wasn't earning either...

It totally depends on what your contract says.

And a childminder isn't like a builder, that's a rubbish example. What household employs a builder all year round?

The childminder depends on your income all year round. Looking after your kids isn't project based work, it's a long term commitment.

Some childminder contracts say things like you have to pay 50% if they're off. Some say full pay.

Our first childminder had holidays on full pay in her contract, which is really unusual for child minders. But she was brilliant so we went along with it.

Watching this thread with interest as I work in the childminding field. Could someone update if there is something mentioned in the budget.
My boss is going to an MP clinic to highlight the issue but it's not until the 21st March 🙄 Can anyone try sooner? Maybe we can start the ball rolling on loss of income for small business/ individuals especially child care

It would be good if people who will continue to get paid, continue to pay those who rely on them. They're not losing anything by doing so.

Those who aren't going to get paid, and who have childminders are in a very tough position, along with the childminder.
If I was using a childminder whose other child/children belonged to someone who wouldn't get paid, I hope my continuing to pay would help subsidise the place of the person who can't.

But if I were self employed, as I am now, and wasn't earning either...

This is where the government should step in to offer solutions.

They could quite easily decide to spend some money on helping people stay home. They won't, though.

Star - it doesn't work for us as we only have ipads but ds's English tutor offered Skype lessons for a slightly reduced charge when she was snowed in and no=one could get to her. Could you put something in place now just in case?

For those posters saying they are self-employed tutors I would be planning now to switch to online tutoring.
Sign up for free for something like Zoom video conferencing - it's very easy, can be used on laptops/ phones, ipads etc and you and the tutor both login, can see each other - can look at the same thing shared on a screen etc

Depending on what goes on with schools I would have thought there would be EXTRA work for tutors if everyone is at home?

I think some people are missing the point on this post. A lot of the parents will not be getting full pay if they can't work. They are looking after their own kids and paying someone else to do it who isn't. It's not about the parents being greedy, they simply can't afford it. It's a terrible situation for both. It is the insurance companies who are at fault here and the government should be doing more to help CM's and nurseries.

I am happy for my CM to take the rest of March and pay half thereafter, but we will be on a far reduced income and I really can't afford to pay hundreds to someone who isn't even providing the service I am paying them for.

The nurseries can say they will expect full pay, but I expect most wont get it.

Sorry, x-posted Comefromaway.
You know you can get a skype app for ipads?

The only issue with that is for some music tutors like my dh or dance tutors it is a very hands on type of tutoring. The slightest difference in tone which can't be picked up over dodgy speakers or being able to physically adjust posture is vital.

But I agree for academic tutors.

ah yes, music tutoring will be harder, I can image.

I don't get paid if I'm off and I work as an employee for a private company unless ssp counts as pay which in reality I would get into serious debt if on that long term. I'm not entitled to redundancy yet either.
So I would not be able to afford to pay your Childminder's fees if my company got into trouble, however at least you've been given some warning so you can now decided what you want to do in your circumstances.

As pp have said if you can afford to it makes sense to keep the childminder on. It's difficult to just magic up a childminder you're trust. Legally I'm not sure though. This is unprecedented territory people are all simply trying to prepare themselves and no doubt are worried about their jobs etc.

Time to say "right, now wer're having a month of intensive theory practice!" (the kids will hate you...)

You know you can get a skype app for ipads?

No, I didn't know that - bit of a technophobe. Will look into it.

As self-employed workers, childminders set their own rates and should factor sickness, holidays, insurance and other costs into these

I can cover my annual holidays, the odd sickness day and all costs associated with running a childminding business With my fees set as they are.

What I haven’t factored in is that the government has the power to shut down the entire early years sector if it decided that would help the spread of corona. Taking the odd day off because I’m ill I can manage (although I’ve only taken one day in it 6 years), taking a few weeks off because the country has been put in to lock down, when I am well enough to work is something completely different.

The majority of self employed people I know have very few sick days because they know there is no sick pay to financially back them up.

Let’s face it, parents generally complain that their childcare bill is to high, the media back them with this (it’s often on the news that the cost of childcare has risen again-which should come as no surprise to anyone when NMW increases annually and the rate of inflation goes up) and the government pay under market rates for the 15/30 ‘free’ hours for 3 and 4 year olds so there is little help for the early years sector from them. The majority of childcare workers I know are getting by on very low incomes and I’m not sure the industry can take much more under funding. Childminders are leaving in droves and many nurseries are struggling to get by at all. Parents refusing to pay childcare bills if settings are forced to shut could just be another nail in the settings coffin.

It seems pretty standard that childminders while self employed still charge for their holidays and sickness.
It's one of the reasons we didn't use one - i'm self employed myself so don't get paid holidays etc. i can't afford to pay for my own and for my childminders. we went with a nursery then afterschool club as both operate all year round (including bank holidays).