Childminder intending to still charge in case of setting closure

[TooGood2BeTrue]

Our childminder has told us that in case her settings will have to be closed because of the virus she will continue to charge parents. Just wondering if this is legal? We only use her for a few hours each week, and it wouldn't break the bank, but I'm a bit annoyed by this TBH. I read that customers who bought tickets for cancelled events are entitled to refunds; is this really so different?

It does depend on your contract - ours says you don't pay if we're not open but we are also being screwed by our insurers so we will have to at least ask our clients to consider continuing to pay if they are able in the event of a closure.

As far as I have been able to work out no childcare insurer is planning to honour the loss of revenue insurance which we've all been paying for.

So it sounds as though the insurers are to blame. As self-employed workers, childminders set their own rates and should factor sickness, holidays, insurance and other costs into these.

But if the insurers aren’t paying out, the system falls apart.

Well presumably if she stopped charging she might struggle to pay her mortgage/rent.
That goes for anyone who's self-employed/freelance, and I can't imagine everyone in that bracket would be able to continue to charge.

No one can give you a legal opinion without seeing the underlying contract.

Given how much you dislike people getting something for nothing I'm sure you'll want to pay a lawyer for the legal advice you're after though...

Well presumably if she stopped charging she might struggle to pay her mortgage/rent.

Why is that the OP’s problem? Plenty of people would be in a similar position, who do they fleece to pay their mortgage?

I doubt the contract will be so specific, but would think if the CM isn’t offering a service, she can’t charge for it.

It might be the OP’s problem if lots of childcare settings have had to close after a forced shutdown because parents refused to pay to help keep them open. My suspicion is that given that such a situation would affect an enormous number of people there would hopefully be contingencies that would alleviate pressure on families, but it can’t be guaranteed. Personally I’m less concerned about people like the OP who can absorb the cost (and me, as I will be on Mat leave), but there are a lot of people who would have a horrible double-whammy of not being paid plus having to pay for childcare. It’s all of our problem really if it comes to it.

Whatever you are legally entitled to, I guess the question is do you want your child to stay in her care?
If you do, pay.
If you don’t, end your contract with her.

I’m a childminder and would certainly hope that if my parents are still being paid they will pay me!

These are extraordinary circumstances. This is not a regular occurrence.

We are self employed and employ a small team. We can legally just allow staff to go off on SMP should they be taken ill but we won’t. We value our team and appreciate that in these times, when you can be kind, you should be kind. You could argue that in principle it’s not right to pay for a service you aren’t using, however history shows cutting off your nose to spite your face, is never a good idea.

• Of course I mean SSP not SMP

I think wherever financially possible we all need to continue to support small businesses that we value, otherwise they might not be around when this is all over.

If I was still receiving a salary myself I would have no qualms about continuing to pay a childminder that I couldn't use during a lock down. If I was self employed and my own income had dried up I simply wouldn't be in a position to and that would be that.

We are far too individualistic as a culture and I have read a lot of stuff (not this thread specifically) where people are complaining that it's 'not fair' that xyz should be paid while zyx isn't and 'why should I pay this when so and so isn't paying that' and it's all a bit short sighted. None of this is fair but here we are.

These are exceptional circumstances and we all need to do our bit (where we can) to protect businesses that we rely on.

It might be the OP’s problem if lots of childcare settings have had to close after a forced shutdown because parents refused to pay to help keep them open.

Also true of many other small businesses. Who do they fleece? If your local shop is in a similar position will you pay them the amount you usually do in return for nothing?

Why are childcare providers so special that they think they deserve to be paid for a service they aren’t offering?

I can’t understand why a childcare provider suddenly wouldn’t still need income after the shutdown ends.

We pay our childminder all year round, get a 50% reduction during the weeks she takes off but nothing else

I can see birth sides but I would be annoyed to pay tbh.
I'd think a meet-in-the-middle approach would be best.

I am on the other side of this and my insurance have said they will not pay out if my setting is closed. So if parents don't continue to pay I take the hit which is very worrying. Although they said it's possible they may pay if I'm forced to close by Public Health England. This does not help me if parents just decide to withdraw their children though.
If you want to keep your childcare I would keep paying!

You call it fleecing, others call it trying to get by in an unprecedented situation. Why are insurers confirming that they will not pay out if childcare settings are forced to close? Have they been “fleecing” the people paying insurance to them?

As it is, it’s not even known whether this will happen. But it’s a completely understandable policy given current information, and is common across all childcare providers that I am aware of.

A childminder is a bit different to larger providers - for the larger firms it is a case that the business might go bust before the shutdown ends. But it's not a case of "thinking we're special" or "fleecing" people, and as I say our contracts don't include payment when we are closed. Childcare is essential for our clients - if the childcare providers don't make it through then the parents won't be able to go back to work either. So for those who DO continue to get paid, then continuing to pay your childcare provider might just be an investment in your own future employer. If that makes you feel fleeced, don't pay. But don't be surprised when your setting isn't there when shutdown ends.

Childminder is less likely to do so although it may be the straw that breaks them and makes them choose to go in to employment instead. Also the risk of losing their home (especially if rented) if things go on for long enough.

You haven't said what your contract says, OP?
It should be clear enough.

You signed a contract (whihc I am sure you will have read of you are self employed and used to that sort of transaction).
If this is part of the contract, then it is. You agreed to it. There is no reasons why your CM shoud change her contract just because you think 'its unfair' because YOU wont get paid.....

(seeing the act you still havent said that 'No you never signed for that', then I am going to assume your cntract allows for that)

Those in employment will get sick pay from day one
Those self employed won’t get anything

Seems your childminder can shut and continue to charge full price, can you ask if under the circumstances you won’t be able to work if she closes and therefore not earn money...can you pay a retainer?

You call it fleecing, others call it trying to get by in an unprecedented situation.
Sure, but many of us (not childminders but self-employed/freelance) are in the same position. Will all clients and customers pay out for the self-employed/freelance workforce?

I'm a childminder and on lots of the childminding groups have had posts from people saying their insurance won't cover the loss of income from this virus.

My CMs contract is absolute arse, my job before my current career was in procurement, I offered some alterations to her benefit not mine before signing but she didn't want, which is fair enough. But nope we won't be paying if the setting closes due to corona. As a healthcare professional I would likely have to find some alternative very expensive childcare to be able to go into work, guessing if myself and others in the same situation called in to say we wouldn't be able to make it that wouldn't be popular. I would feel bad, but it's not workable. If we lose our place over it there's a surplus of nursery places here so not too worried.

Of course it's legal. Our nursery has explicitly told us the same, because their insurers have told them they won't cover closure for coronavirus so parents will have to keep paying as usual even if they close.

Not yet they won't. The emergency legislation hasn't yet been passed. And SSP is only a fraction of most people's wages, not the full rate. Based on a 5 day working week it works out at £18.85 per day. The equivalent would be the childminder charging a nominal retainer.

I'm still planning to pay my gym membership if it closes. It isn't their fault that this is all happening and I bet the government won't fork out. I hope by continuing to pay that they will pay their staff.
I think it is the kind thing to do to pay.