Childminder intending to still charge in case of setting closure

[TooGood2BeTrue]

Our childminder has told us that in case her settings will have to be closed because of the virus she will continue to charge parents. Just wondering if this is legal? We only use her for a few hours each week, and it wouldn't break the bank, but I'm a bit annoyed by this TBH. I read that customers who bought tickets for cancelled events are entitled to refunds; is this really so different?

I'm self employed and if I have to close I won't be getting paid. I have to be physically at work in order to make money. I will not be paying my childminder if that happens. She's self employed too and can claim stat sick pay. Same as I can under these circumstances. There's no way I'm giving her a portion of mine when I can't work. Not a fear.

One thing to consider in my opinion is also the fact that CM's looking after under 3 year olds will continue to receive money from the state for those free hours, so most of them won't be completely out of pocket if they are forced to closed by the DfE / Public Health.

I imagine everyone on here will expect to get paid if their workplace is ordered to close.

Why would a childcare provider be different to anyone else?

@painintheholeSIL - Your childminder won’t be able to claim sick pay if the government orders her to close, will she?

She won’t be sick, just unable to operate - and through no fault of her own.

I imagine everyone on here will expect to get paid if their workplace is ordered to close

I wouldnt, tbh.

And theres 0 chance of my workplace closing to be fair.

I dont want the nursery staff to not get paid either, but if ive no wage how am i supposed to pay them?

I'm hoping that I can negotiate to keep paying, but 'bank' the extra days to use when open again by putting child in for an extra day for a while (she has capacity, I'm flexible about when I can work), as I think that's the only way that neither of us looses out.

out of interest if you are claiming money for childcare or getting some free hours what happens than?
CM have expenses like registration insurance equipment & food & toys &other baby & child equipment - she has to subtract the cost of this from what you pay her - if she is in receipt of HB or UC et al it is worked out on what she earns - her hourly pay is therefore probably a lot lower than you think - & if you are rude in the way you do this - believe me - you may find other minders hear about you & will suddenly not have any vacancies (& its not illegal if its in the contract - YOU signed it) & many nurseries are going under so child care will become less availble

@TooGood2BeTrue our LA have confirmed that we will receive our government funding for a maximum of two weeks.
My main problem with this situation is that I don't recieve they payment for any of these hours until May.

@BumpkinSpiceBatty I didn't know that; thanks for pointing it out.

I imagine everyone on here will expect to get paid if their workplace is ordered to close.

I already said upthread in that circumstance we’d get Statutory Lay Off Pay of £29 per week.

Sorry per day I meant.

@EYProvider I'm in Ireland. They're changing sick pay amount and rules to cover this situation. If she can't claim then presumably I can't either. I won't be in a position to pay her if I'm not making money. I'm a self employed hairdresser.

So if she's ordered to close it's not her fault but if I'm ordered to close it's not my fault either and we'll both just have to suck it up. I can't charge my clients for services I won't be providing. I can't pay her for services she's not providing either.

As a childminder I don't fleece the families I work alongside. I don't charge for my holidays or any sick days (none in seven years).
I won't be asking them to pay in the event of a government closure but I am genuinely very worried about how I'm financially going to cope.

It's not the ops problem- until she wants to send her child back to the childminder after this virus departs and the childminder has gone bust!

Don't pay and take the risk then. You have a choice don't you? She's set her stall out with you so you can now decide. You sound like you want her to grovel for it op!

I don't understand all the posters saying OP should pay childcare fees because she will still be getting paid herself. Just because the schools etc are closed this doesn't mean that OPs work will be closed or that she will have to self isolate. My work has announced today that if we need to take time off to look after children this will be as unpaid leave.

Ramdogs the OP herself has said she could bear these costs. Concern has been expressed by others for those who are not in this fortunate position.

Yes exactly... so for the majority of people who don't have £700++ spare each month WITHOUT a wage coming in... what are they supposed to do?

As another freelancer, I am not expecting and insisting my clients pay for work that is cancelled and I have just had a lot of work cancelled for the foreseeable future due to coronavirus. I am in the events industry which right now is in compete meltdown due to Coronavirus - that is the accepted risk that we self employed people take.
The childminder is no different, she is self employed and as a knock on effect of coronavirus she may have work cancelled like I have.
I think it is unfair to charge clients when you are not actually working, whatever the circumstance. I have not asked my clients to pay me for work that has been cancelled, only work I have already undertaken.
Why should OP be paying if her DC can't attend? Unless you are in full time employment then you should not expect the benefits of full time employment just as I and many other self employed people will not be during these difficult few months ahead.

As someone who is SE it's a dilemma that's always there.

When I first started having to pay for childcare costs would have bankrupted me if I had to pay when I had no income. It took some time and effort to start making a sizeable profit to even think about my personal savings.

If I was expected to still pay, well, I would lose the space. Then it would be a vicious circle or trying to get childcare whilst trying to start earning again, to pay childcare and all the normal household debts I would have incurred.

I'd love to be able to create a contract that kept me as SE but still allowed an income to be generated when I'm not providing my services. Instead, I have to plan and budget to cover emergencies etc. And I've checked with my insurance, and they won't cover my lost earnings unless I am personally affected.

And before anyone suggests I be a CM then if I want that contract. No thanks, I love my job too much.

As has been outlined on the thread, Ramdogs, the hope is that given the enormous number of households that would be affected if this comes into play, there would be measures put in place at govt level to stop huge numbers of people falling into an impossible financial situation. However, until clear plans are in place either way the uncertainty makes things extremely worrying

And let's be realistic here.
There is no saying the government will actually step up.
If they cared about those already struggling and in need then families wouldn't already be in precarious situations made worse by cuts.

Local authorities are already strapped for cash and have had to cut vital services.

My reliance on the government sorting this out is zero. Plus there will be so many clauses if they were to help financially, that it wouldn't be of use to a lot of people in need.

Have to agree with you ffswhatnext . There was nothing in today's budget for situations like this and doubt there's anything forthcoming either.

Agreed, there are absolutely no guarantees here. It’s a really worrying prospect

we couldn't just 'absorb' the cost if we weren't able to work ourselves. We have had wonderful child minders but it's a case of needs must.

I would think a retainer type fee would be more in order.

The support for businesses wasn't great either tbh - sure, the SSP thing helps but that doesn't apply if we're all forced to shut (the staff won't be sick, or self isolating, they'll just be at home)
-loads of childcare providers operate from premises which don't have rates (church halls for example)
-even for those who do pay them, the relief isn't going to go far
-Loan fund; will it even be available to self-employed businesses? In reality? dubious to say the least. And then...it's still a loan. It's a sticking plaster for the short term that becomes a noose in the long term

Hopefully there would be other measures (my personal hope would be increased guarantee pay covered by the govt) but really it didn't go far enough. And lots of people don't have lay off clauses.

And the same is true for families who will be suffering when this gets worse. The quickest solution is surely to solve it via the businesses - it makes more sense for us to apply for support once than for each of our staff to do so individually.