Childminder intending to still charge in case of setting closure

[TooGood2BeTrue]

Our childminder has told us that in case her settings will have to be closed because of the virus she will continue to charge parents. Just wondering if this is legal? We only use her for a few hours each week, and it wouldn't break the bank, but I'm a bit annoyed by this TBH. I read that customers who bought tickets for cancelled events are entitled to refunds; is this really so different?

And applause to those childcare providers who have realised the implications of their charges circumstances.

It's going to be hard for an awful lot of people, regardless of their employment situations. At least some of you are realising those who pay you, will also be struggling to pay for food etc and don't have the added stress of childcare afterwards and more debt. Never mind trying to find and pay more because they are still required to go to work.

We're always aware of our client's circumstances. We don't have our heads implanted up our arses.

We're aware of our staff circumstances and how scared they are

We're aware of our own circumstances

We're aware of the business finances

and hence most of us are currently shit scared

Currently insurance companies will not pay out, even if we are (so we thought!) covered for loss of earnings due to notifiable illnesses.

Not all childminders charge for holidays and sickness: it’s by no means standard.

Similarly, not all childminders can afford to deliver the subsidised hours (they are not free - the Government payment doesn’t cover it in a lot of areas. If you though it was free, the chances are you childminder or nursery is making up the shortfall.
In any case, it’s term time only, so no payment at for Easter or Whitsun half term.

At present, the advice is that we remain open, even if a child in our care develops symptoms. We send the child home, but we remain open for the other children.
I therefore think, at this stage, it’s unlikely that the the Op’s childminder will need to invoke her policy.
Far more likely is that either the childminder or her family will become ill, or that the Op will be unable to send her child due to illness or isolation.
In both cases, the terms and conditions agreed in the contract apply.

No one can give you a legal opinion without seeing the underlying contract. Given how much you dislike people getting something for nothing I'm sure you'll want to pay a lawyer for the legal advice you're after though...

Very true!

They were talking on R4 this morning about just this subject!
That the budget had not made provision for child care providers. ( who are obviously crucial in the part they play in keeping the economy going)

If my kids weren't such animals at breakfast I might have caught who it was speaking! A government bod who is also clearly a Mumsnetter.

just keeping the snark going VegetableMunge

@sleepingpup - The budget never makes provision for childcare providers.

This is why the staff are ‘low paid’. The only means of paying the staff comes from the fees that parents pay, and most parents expect childcare to be more or less free.

I have been unable to sleep for the past week worrying about how I will pay my staff if the government orders us to close. I will have no income so won’t even be able to afford the lay off costs. But how will the staff live? Can they claim UC from day 1?

@EYProvider

I feel for you.

I hope something comes of the discussion this morning.

The only provision the government ever makes for us is more red tape, regulation and costs.

most parents expect childcare to be more or less free

please dont tar us all with the same brush!

Can I just point out that a lot of places including NHS are that you get paid if isolating however, if it was due to no childcare I had to take time off work I would have to take it as unpaid or annual leave as carers leave would not cover it all. This means that not only would I be having to try to pay all the bills with no income for those weeks but then also have to pay for childcare that I wouldn’t be getting.

Haven’t read the full thread but it wouldn’t even cross my mind to not pay my childminder if she was forcefully closed.

It’s their job, their income - they have bills and mortgages to pay just like the rest of us.

@QueenofmyPrinces so how will you pay your childminder and all your bills if your work are not paying you?

Our works will be paying us as I’m in a job that will not be closed down and my DH is in a job where he’ll WFH if needed hence why I have have the freedom to say I would still pay childcare bills - I understand though that others aren’t in the same fortunate position.

I really feel for those who aren’t in that position and wouldn’t be able to pay their childcare though (should have added that to my post) and I don’t know what the answer is. I’m sure many childminders would hate to put their mindee’s parents in this awful situation but I don’t know how they would manage if their whole monthly income stopped.

I understand that schools/childcare settings may have to close but there are a lot of knock on side effects (like this one) that can potentially make life very hard for parents and childcare staff.

My friend was trying to get me to sign an online “close the schools” petition but I wouldn’t because it didn’t sit right with me. I asked her what kind of people she thought was signing it, as in, does she think it’s single parents who work full time with childcare bills to pay? Or families where both parents are in full time work and would be screwed if schools were shut? Or is it more likely to be parents where school closures wouldn’t really effect them?

She agreed it was probably the latter.

I told her to consider that when she was looking at the hundreds of signatures and ask herself how true a picture it is of what the country wants when it may be that the majority of people signing it are doing so because there may be no fall back on them if schools/childcare settings close.

That not to say school closures aren’t necessary, that’s not my call to make, or that those signing the petition don’t genuinely feel schools should close - I just think the whole thing is a very shitty situation for families and employees who will be affected.

I'd be frank and offer to pay half but explain like her you are self employed and will not get paid.

@QueenofmyPrinces will your husband be allowed to WFH and care for the kids though? I'm a civil servant and WFH but we've always had a policy that this doesn't = childcare. They confirmed this week that if kids are off then we will need to take unpaid leave and can't work from home if kids in house. Maybe they'll relax this if they get desperate but they're being very rigid at the moment.

will your husband be allowed to WFH and care for the kids though?

His boss hasn’t said anything about not being allowed to work from home if the children are there. Like you said, it’s desperate times and maybe they are empathetic and understand that everyone is in a difficult situation and that allowances have to be made.

@Ramdogs odd rule.

A neurotypical 12 year old is different from a neuroptypical 5 year old. One of my 12 year old nieces could entertain herself for hours at time allowing her parents to WFH in peace, but my 5 year old niece couldn't.

The whole situation is awful. I will be continuing to pay for my child's nursery in the event of closure as I want her to be able to go back once this is over and also those wonderful staff need to be retained and paid. We have to take social responsibility. And if you can afford to pay it then do. If not then of course you can't. Someone said yesterday that we could buy vouchers for our local shops/beauty treatments etc to help keep them afloat. Chances are many will fold. It's hideous.

@LittleLittleLittle Not really. I'm paid to work not look after my kids.

I’ve just received a Corona Virus Policy off my childminder where she says that if her business is forcefully closed then we would still have to pay 50% of our usual costs.

My Childminder has changed her policy to state that if she has to close because the school is closed (She only takes primary age children mon-thurs term time only) then she will charge us 50%.
I have heard though that children of keyworkers may be able to stay at school and the rest be off (although I think this is highly unlikely) but in that case, will she stay open for my dtr only and if not, should I then have to pay the fees if she is refusing to stay open for my child only? Its so worrying!

My childminder has said that if the government closure the setting then I will have to full fees. I’ve looked at my contract and it says “unforeseen circumstances when the childminding service is not available. no fee or any other amount will be payable by parents in these circumstances because the parent will need to organise alternative childcare.” I understand that the childminder if forced to shut will find it difficult to pay bills ect, however if I can’t work because of childcare issues then I won’t have the money to pay her. She doesnt take funding over half term and I will have to pay top up fee on top of government funded hours. So I won’t even be able to pay my bills let along pay her £400+.

@QueenofmyPrinces she can’t amend an existing contract with a new policy unless both parties agree to it. I read somewhere that there’s about 140,000 redundancies in Ireland as the restaurant/club/bar staff were all let go. It’s ludicrous to think self employed childminders can just assume they can charge whatever they need to — no, they can charge what’s in their contract. And frankly, even if you break your existing contract they’d have to take you to court to get payment — with a worldwide pandemic and people facing layoffs and economies tanking... not sure it would be a clear “win” for them.

I do understand that it's a horrible situation and she's got bills to pay too however if I can't work due to looking after my 3 year old then I can't pay my mortgage and bills let alone pay her. I would be willing to give her a "deposit" to help out and keep my daughters space but I have a feeling that won't be welcome.

We also had a letter from our childminder that in the event of forced closure (by the government) she will continue to charge full fees. I think this is unreasonable to an extent that her overhead expenditure will undoubtedly be lower during this period, so we should really meet somewhere in the middle for this to be fair.