Childminder intending to still charge in case of setting closure

[TooGood2BeTrue]

Our childminder has told us that in case her settings will have to be closed because of the virus she will continue to charge parents. Just wondering if this is legal? We only use her for a few hours each week, and it wouldn't break the bank, but I'm a bit annoyed by this TBH. I read that customers who bought tickets for cancelled events are entitled to refunds; is this really so different?

My CM doesn’t have a mortgage (she is older)
If no kids attend she won’t need food for them, can reduce the heating.

What are these costs that will force CMs to ‘go under’ that aren’t also the case for the paying parents? Genuine question. Assume insurance. What else is above and beyond their actual household costs that are there anyway?

CM at the least should offer reduced rates taking into account the reduction in their costs if no kids attending
If not they are essentially profiteering.

@Lindy2 I think that’s a pretty unpleasant take on it- that you expect parents who aren’t going to be paid themselves or be on the bare minimum to still pay full fees and if they don’t/can’t you would knowingly leave them in the shit in future because you were annoyed with them?
Relationships work both ways.

Tellingitlikeitisnt

This is what I posted If you want continued childcare in the future and you are getting paid then you should pay your childminder.

My comment refers to people who are getting paid. In a non paid situation I would take a different approach.

Luckily I have a very good relationship with the parents of the children I look after. If it comes to it we'll sit down and talk and work out how they and I get through this situation and whatever may get thrown at us.

A parent who's getting paid but would choose to no longer pay their childminder but whilst still expecting her to be ready and waiting to provide continued childcare at a later date for them, isn't someone I would particularly want to work with. I don't intend to be nasty, just honest.

Of course its legal. She is self employed and can set her own rates and terms. Whether you accept them or not is up to you. The charge is to keep your place open.

she's self employed does she have any kind of insurance ?
She will have insurance to cover cover liability but it will be unlikely to cover loss of income becausw if things like this

Have a bit of empathy. Especially as you can afford it and would still be getting paid yourself.

My dog walker had 2 months off work and I knew she had no insurance. I carried on paying her. A friend kindly agreed to walk my dog foc on a temp basis so I wasn’t out of pocket but even if I’d had to pay a second dog walker I’d have paid the first one if I’d been able to afford to.

Of course! I will be paying mine if the worst happens

I will struggle to pay nursery fees if they shut and I can’t work. As a bare minimum I would expect a reduction in fees as they won’t actually be feeding DS (they charge £11.50 a day for food). Fundamentally though, if they are shut for weeks, we can’t afford to pay- simple as that.

I am a childminder and I can see your point. If I have to close my business for several weeks though I will probably not open it again. I love my work and the children but the admin, late payers and occasional difficult parents along with the low income, and now potentially no income, it is just not worth it.

I can see many nurseries and childminders going out of business.

She is self employed and can set her own rates and terms

Not if such terms are unfair.

I’m a childminder and all the insurance policies don’t cover this as it was an unprecedented situation when the policies were written. Two of the three main insurers have said they will pay loss of earning cover if (and only if) CV is in our setting (us or a child with +ive testing) but not if we close due to gov/PHE advice.

I really don’t get why people who are self employed (not just CMs) don’t have savings to cover these situations. Surely being self employed means planning for lean months and emergencies? I budget each month for a set amount of income and any extra each month goes into a contingency fund.

I'm not even sure that many are paying SpanGrans - I know at least 2 of them have said they're not adding CV to the list of notifiable diseases. MM are not paying full stop. It's possible the CM policies might be slightly different though.

I really don’t get why people who are self employed (not just CMs) don’t have savings to cover these situations.

We have savings to cover the reasonably foreseeable and manageable stuff (drop in numbers, short closure due to issue with premises, etc) and we have insurance for the stuff which we can't cover with savings.

Even for a bigger CM service with an assistant or two, forced complete closure for a month is quite possibly in the latter category.

really don’t get why people who are self employed (not just CMs) don’t have savings to cover these situations. Surely being self employed means planning for lean months and emergencies? I budget each month for a set amount of income and any extra each month goes into a contingency fund.

what you really can't think why ?? Please.

Unfortunately Childminder's have parents backed into a corner and they know it especially with the demand for places and how much parents rely on them

They are the only self employed people I know that have holiday, bank holiday and sickness paid for

My childminder tends to say - I'm sick/her children are sick/...ill still take your child but at your own risk of them catching it.....and then they'd definitely have to stay home....

With emergency government measures being put in place I suspect companies will be much more lenient about parental leave etc

When my son was seriously ill and in hospital for a month, we still had to pay the full nursery fees, so I would assume that you would still have to pay if the nursery closed.

Hi all, I've been reading through as I had the same question.
Lots of people saying you still get paid if you self isolate....
However if your childminder self isolates, but you don't - you need to take time off to look after the children. Potentially unpaid (if you yourself have no reason to need to self-isolate.
My childminder has said for payment if her husband has to self isolate and she closes the setting. In which case I would still need to work and need to pay for alternative childcare or take time off to look after my children, likely unpaid.
I'm surprised so many people are saying you have to pay like being tight? Surely still paying the CM means you are out of pocket?
I don't wanna be a bitch, but potentially this could go on for weeks/months, I wouldn't be able to pay my mortgage if I'm getting unpaid and still paying childcare costs and I'm sure lots would be in the same situation.
Or am I missing something here?

If I’m sick I will get sick pay from my company. If I’m well though and the nursery closes, I need to take time off work. I don’t have enough holiday entitlement left, so it would be unpaid time off. Why should I pay the nursery if they are closed, as I won’t be getting paid by my employer?

Every CM is different contract wise. We used to CM (now a bigger setting) and our policy was essentially if we're open, you pay for your space. We have the same policy in bigger setting. So if you go on holiday then you pay to keep the place open, but if we are closed you don't. Same for sickness (when we were only CM.) We always felt this was the fairest way

So personally I do understand the feeling that it's cheeky to expect payment when closed. But this circumstance is pretty unprecedented.

michellevictoriaturner You are missing that most people are talking about a govt-ordered shutdown. Most people have expressed sympathy for the double-whammy or childcare costs plus no income and the likelihood is that as this could effect an enormous number of households the chances are there would be measures in place to support families. However it is very hard while there are still no guarantees

For me.. if nursery shut ill still have to pay presumably.

Unless i am actually ill i wont get paid.

So if nursery shut, im -500 in fees for childcare i cant use, plus im without my entire wage so another 1500.

So were down 2 grand in a month and expected to live off 1000 which is dps wages minus nursery fees

I dunno how were supposed to cope tbh.

Yes. If that happens it will be impossible for many households.

It's the combination of circumstances that make it so difficult isn't it:
-Lots of parents potentially on reduced income (sick pay/no pay as caring for children/Self employed and on lockdown/...)
-Care services facing unscheduled, mandatory closure but still incurring huge costs (needing to keep paying staff/rent etc so they can reopen)
-Insurance cover failure.

Without some external help somewhere there's not really a solution, someone somewhere gets screwed

Yes absolutely

Read your contract see what that says.

Or give her notice and then when it's all over find new childcare.

YABU btw

@IvinghoeBeacon right ok, that's what I missed then.
Mandatory closure I 100% agree with.
I don't however agree with paying for her husband needing to self isolate (in my circumstances I mean). It could mean weeks and weeks off if he is off, then she is off, then school is shut - half pay for her none for me. I'd be jobless or homeless!