Is the green party starting to regret it's association with Islamists?

[mids2019]

The green party, ostensibly about climate protection and general progressive values seems to have gotten into bed with Islamist sympathisers and the amount of anti semitism and basic hatred of their own country is now obvious.

The green party now at least locally are known as a party that has sympathies towards all manner of Islamist causes including Hamas's objective to wipe Israel of the face of the Earth.

Wouldn't be surprised if they produce a motion declaring climate change a Jewish conspiracy........

I believe they are and have noticed many people on the pro Israel side on Mumsnet say they are in favour of a 2 state solution - one day. Unfortunately it seems further away than ever right now but it's a goal nevertheless.

It's disingenuous in my opinion to pretend the two sides could ever live harmoniously side by side together in one country. A one state solution basically means eradicating one side - be that the Palestinians or the Israelis.

Personally I find that an extreme position to take.

Agree.

and there is no way to extract the three quarters of a million settlers from Palestinian land

Any neighbouring country could offer to take them in as refugees and Israel would jump at the chance. No neighbouring country wants them.

Finally someone has come close to admitting what the majority of Israelis want to see as a solution.

No, I’ve just pointed out yet another bogus claim in your drivel.

Backtracking much?

No. All I did in the first place was point out that your claim was untrue. You are just straw-manning again. It’s all you’ve got.

I don't agree with you @Squeezingwildoranges but I'm not going to bother debating with someone with such anti Israel feelings and who is so dismissive of anyone who supports a two state solution.

Your take seems to be - if it sounds reasonable from a pro Israel supporter, it can't be genuine. There is no point arguing against such blatant bias.

I would arvo are for a two state solution but I do see how large the challenges are. The problem is forming a state for Palestine that is made up of separate land masses of Gaza, the West Bank and Jeruslem which functjons. Also placing Gaza in a state will not fundamentally change the nature of societal attitudes towards Israel or immediately give economic benefit without mass investmen t. Although admitted dog there may be some extreme views on Israel at the fringes the main challenge is that Gaza at least harbours a long lasting ideology of New extermination. Before talk of a viable two state solution begins imho Hamas need to be removed from power a nd disarmed. As important would be a long term cultural shift so Bad and accepted Israelis as neighbours. One of the problem with peace is that we have global movements for a free Palestine which advocate a destruction of Israel and would these movements stop even if we had some concerted move towards two states.

I too have made the mistake of getting drawn in again to pointless debate with the straw man poster. I shall be muting this thread now but I have appreciated your contributions to it.

Okay, I'd be interested to be convinced as to how it could work. I already stated that I believe you are genuine about the idea. Explain how this two state solution could work and, more importantly, where this Palestinian state will be.

Thanks for posting this thread but I’m bowing out now. I don’t think the straw man poster will ever be psychologically capable of really considering the double standard.

No because I have already stated I don't see the point in debating with people with such anti Israel feelings.

And you have even chosen to dismiss more moderate positions as "peace washing". So it's pointless.

Fair enough.

Thank you. Also appreciate your contributions and agree it's so easy to get drawn into pointless discussions with those that aren't even listening.

I posit arguments backed by facts. If someone wants to challenge those arguments with facts, that's called debating. If they haven't got any viable arguments left, they go down the ad hominem route instead. Doesn't bother me.

No you don't you just think you do. Arguing with deluded people is also pointless.

As a former member of a far left organisation, I remember when Marxism which appeared to be thoroughly grounded in science and reason - what was called "scientific materialism." I cannot fathom the unholy alliance with any religion let alone this one and it will end very badly as it did with the left in Iran who made a pact with the Islamists in 79. I am no longer of that persuasion and haven't been for a long time.

I think with regard to the two state solution it has to be stated that there are significant numbers on both sides who wish a single state of Israel or Palestine. The two state solution from a logical perspective holds weight in the long term but at the moment you don't see any from the Palestinian or Israeli sides advocating for it and the question is will they ever?

One thing I have noticed is that pro Palestinian ideologues are very vague on the question of the borders of the states of Israel and a purported Palestine. I think this is mirrored by the Green party who now have openly rejected a two state solution and unapologetically want Israel gone. If pro Palestinians are harbouring the desire that continued focus on Gaza will result in some sort of retreat of the 'hideous Zionists' what hope is there? There simply aren't any moderates currently.

What do you think about an israel-Palestine confederation as an alternative to a two-state/one-state solution?

Whereas random ad hominem attacks aren't? If you don't want to actually debate but just keep throwing insults, perhaps I should be the one ignoring you but quite frankly, I find it very amusing.

You are right. Religion and Marxism don't make great bedfellows. Stalin showed us that. Having said that, there is a big difference between hippy communists in this day and age compared to the Tudeh party at the height of the Soviet Union. Carter, although surprised by the speed of the revolution, preferred the idea of an Islamic state over a communist one. The purge of the Tudeh party wasn't simply a religious clash, it was political with Khomeini not wanting to swap 'Western imperial influence' for Soviet influence. I don't think this really applies to the Green party today.

The wording of the Green party motion definitely sounds like eradicating the state of Israel. I have no idea if this was a mistake or done on purpose. I have heard supporters of the motion arguing that it doesn't mean a destruction of Israel, it means coexistence but in my mind, renaming the whole area Palestine does sound like a dismantling of Israel which is no more fair than keeping the Palestinians under a never ending brutal occupation.