Has the West been taken in by Hamas’ lies and anti Israeli narrative?

[OpheliaWasntMad]

https://nypost.com/2026/09/21/opinion/journalist-admits-anti-israel-narrative-driving-protests-is-based-on-hamas-lies/

This journalist admits that his reporting from Gaza was not accurate because he was afraid of retaliation from Hamas.
Why have so many believed every report from Gaza journalists?

No, I couldn’t have imagined a country would respond with the violence and vengeance you allude to. A response, yes, but not what ultimately happened.

Perhaps the anti-Israeli narrative has to understood in the context of this. For most people - the response has been eye opening. The disregard to the massive amount of human suffering at the centre of it.

Hamas do know how Israel respond when under attack though? It couldn't have surprised them.

Neither Hamas nor IDF / Israel’s elected government come out well. But can’t see any threads on why there’s an anti-Hamas narrative?

Neither can I but some do seem to empathise with Hamas.

Maybe there would be a thread like you suggest if only they weren't a proscribed terrorist organisation in the UK, or Mumsnet wasn't a UK site.

I think I have been clear enough that I am no supporter of Hamas. I haven’t seen any support for Hamas either on this thread.

It should be perfectly possible to discuss the reasons for anti-Israeli narrative without casting aspersions. I’m sure no one is trying to minimise concerns about what’s happened in Gaza though?

Yes - I think Hamas knew what would happen after October 7 and consider the deaths of innocent civilians as useful propaganda.

Not accusing you of supporting Hamas. But I have seen people make posts that seem to empathise with Hamas on this board.

That’s what I think too. They’re very cynical and human life even of Palestinians seems cheap to them compared to their cause.

I don't know your politics, but I've encountered many, many Conservatives/Trumpers online who play a game of faux-innocence. Like "What crimes did Trump actually commit?" I'm not sure if the goal is to trap the person into expending energy or not.

It may not be true of you, but your post has the hallmarks of it.

I actually believe now that the Hamas terrorists in Gaza and the world as a whole are being played by a very cleverly orchestrated plan by certain Israeli leaders and so called fat cat Hamas leaders who don't have a shred of humanity in their bodies and want to clear all of Gaza to develop it into some kind of riviera which they will all profit off. This has been the plan from day 1. I honestly think that anyone who supports this plan are soulless ghouls.

Well this is what the Israeli leadership tell us. We have to keep destroying Gaza and murdering innocent civilians because we aren't safe. We face an existential threat. Does that seriously make sense to you if you pause to consider it?

The 'does Israel have a right to exist' question is a completely different point. You seem to dislike Polanski and are trying to score political points here. Polanski (judging from what you wrote), appears to be making a fair point.

It's possible. Lots of awful things are happening and who knows exactly who is behind them? What is certain is that the truth is worse and far more complicated than the population are being told.

Surely that would happen in any war though, or do you think this war should not have impacted the civilian population at all, because no other war in history ever did, right?

How would you expect any other world leader to respond to the rape, torture, mutilation, slaughter and wounding of 8,000+ citizens (and visitors), as well as hundreds of hostages kidnapped, on the scale and in the short time frame that Palestinians committed Oct 7th out of interest?

I would point out it was not only Hamas who committed the atrocities of Oct 7th.

Are all wars 'revenge' and not greatly violent then?

That people commentating on this war STILL don't understand that Oct 7th's UTIMATE goal, while also giving 'ordinary' Palestinians the opportunity of an orgy of frenzied killing and raping of Jews, was to start a war in Gaza and demonise Israel on the world stage for civilian deaths, who were actively used as 'necessary sacrifices' is baffling to me.

So creating international outrage and resulting political pressure (internal Israeli politics as well) damaging Israel's diplomatic relationships and international reputation, encouraging economic and cultural boycotts, and ultimately making Israel a political, social and economic pariah (which is the current phase) building on age old ingrained antisemitism to make it, and it's people, the most hated country/people in the world!

Of course, losing the support of the US through the above will leave Israel very exposed.

There was never any chance Palestinians could ever annihilate Israel (which was always the ultimate goal) militarily, for the specific reason that Israel 'oppressed' them by not allowing them means to build a 'proper' Army - heavy artillery, planes, tanks, warships etc, and it was too risky with US support of Israel for other supporting actors to join in.

Sinwar studied Israeli society and politics for years and knew exactly what the response would be to Oct 7th.

Why on earth do you think the pro-Palestinian marches, social media and 'activist' propaganda campaigns were all in place while the actual genocide was still taking place in Israel?

I bet Netanyahu knew the ultimate aim of Oct 7th as well but there was no other option for Israel but to do what Hamas/Iran (and other supporting actors) knew they would do. Hamas needed to be dismantled.

I don't think Israel expected a large proportion of the world (and so their governments) to still be so dumb and deranged with Jew hatred in 2023 that Hamas and their supporters plan would work though.

It's a sore point isn't it that a lot of those who are involved in the marches do not wish to say Israel should exist and I guess I can pick the question to you ....where should Israel's borders lie in your view? I ask this because a lot of pro Palestinians will say Israel shouldn't exist. This is seen in the motion at the Green party conference where Zionism (i.e. the existence of any form of Israeli state) is to be rejected.

Trump's an idiot and this site is a UK one not a US one so the Trump obsession is strange to me. Actually it has become boring as have petty insults.

Why don't you answer @Martymcfly24's more than reasonable question rather than ignoring it altogether and attempting (and failing) with some kind of 'gotcha'? Have you statistics to back up your assertion that 'a lot of pro Palestinians (how are you defining someone who is pro Palestinian, by the way?), .....harbour a desire for Israel literally to be removed as a state so there is Islamic Palestinian rule.

Meanwhile, we have some Israeli leaders actually announcing genocidal intent and then proceeding to trying to entirely destroy Gaza and its people and carrying out ethnic cleansing and land grabbing and murder in the West bank plus various other countries. Israel also continues to expand its borders since they were created as a state.
Why are you so worried about what some people who are 'pro Palestine' (again, please define what you mean here) might think and ostensibly far less worried about what Israel is actually doing?

Also, do you think my post would immediately be deleted if I wrote this? I suspect it would, despite many Israelis actually agreeing with it. Meanwhile, your posts stands.

'It needs to be understood a lot of pro Israelis, who ostensibly have sympathy for the innocent people of Israel, harbour a desire for Palestine to literally to be removed as a state so there is Jewish rule.'

“Nope none of that proves ** point that pro Palestinians have a "desire for Israel literally to be removed as a state so there is Islamic Palestinian rule".

You don’t think calls for intifada and chanting the “river to the sea” etc show that there are many many pro Palestinians in the west want Israel to be removed as a state?
Zack Polanski refused on BBC news yesterday to say that Israel had a right to exist.
This idea that Israel has no right to even exist has grown exponentially since October 7th.

I agree. Look at the way the marches started immediately after October 7 and not one marcher held a placard condemning Hamas . In fact an Iranian who did condemn Hamas was attacked.
Hamas have openly said they want to destroy Israel. Many, many of the pro Palestine activists also want to destroy Israel. The others are blind to the hatred in their midst.

“That people commentating on this war STILL don't understand that Oct 7th's UTIMATE goal, while also giving 'ordinary' Palestinians the opportunity of an orgy of frenzied killing and raping of Jews, was to start a war in Gaza and demonise Israel on the world stage for civilian deaths, who were actively used as 'necessary sacrifices' is baffling to me.”

Exactly

You know what @rainingsnoring why bother.

I have never once heard anyone saying Israel should not exist and I have been on lots of marches (as opposed to the vehemently pro Israel posters who seem to have attended all of them and seen Pro Hamas signs)
It's the same ploy Netanyahu uses to muddy the waters, we won't talk about Israel murdering two mothers (one pregnant) and daughters over the past few days let's just say anyone opposing this doesn't want Israel to exist.
Then the conversation can be steered back to safer grounds
The idea of the question "does Israel have the right to exist" started with Israel themselves and their politically advocacy.
They have pulled off a masterstroke to be honest getting people(I won't use the term useful idiots because it's the main vocabulary of some posters ) in the West with no links to the area to support them while they expand their territory, murder civilians and are still seen as the higher moral ground and victim .

Is what you are saying untrue? After all Israelis are demonstrably radicalised.

Do you attend the marches in London? I’ve seen loads of them ( they’ve occurred on a weekly basis straight after October 7 ) . Most of the people on them seem fine but I’ve never once seen an anti Hamas placard and I seen lots of “river to the sea” .
This thread is about Hamas’ success at creating an anti Israeli narrative so that is why the posts are about that ( rather than focusing on the casualties of the war that Hamas started)

I am sorry, but the idea that
Oct 7th's UTIMATE goal, while also giving 'ordinary' Palestinians the opportunity of an orgy of frenzied killing and raping of Jews, was to start a war in Gaza and demonise Israel on the world stage for civilian deaths, who were actively used as 'necessary sacrifices' is baffling to me

would hinge on Israeli leadership being an abnormal level of low intelligence to have walked into such an obvious trap and then stayed in the same trap carrying out Hamas’ ‘ultimate goal’ for three years.

I bet Netanyahu knew the ultimate aim of Oct 7th as well but there was no other option for Israel…
I also do not agree that Netanyahu knew this Hamas’ ‘ultimate aim’ or had no other option but to knowingly collaborate with Hamas to get Israel demonised on the world stage by allowing the conflict to escalate into causing tens of thousands of dead Palestinians.

In short, I think the reason most people can’t nod along with all this is not because they are ‘dumb and deranged with Jew hatred’ but rather because you have generated an antisemitic conspiracy theory that casts Netanyahu and his government as kapos.

Now, I am highly critical of Netanyahu and his government, but your conspiracy theory of knowingly collaborating with Hamas or being too stupid to realise he is being played by Hamas do not come from a place of viewing we Jews as intelligent, capable human beings. And by capable, I mean capable of great good and great evil as are all other human beings.

In stark contrast to the protests in the UK
some brave Palestinians did carry anti Hamas placards. No support for them from the marchers in London.

www.amnesty.org.uk/latest/palestine-hamas-must-end-shameful-crackdown-against-protesters-gaza/