Has the West been taken in by Hamas’ lies and anti Israeli narrative?

[OpheliaWasntMad]

https://nypost.com/2026/09/21/opinion/journalist-admits-anti-israel-narrative-driving-protests-is-based-on-hamas-lies/

This journalist admits that his reporting from Gaza was not accurate because he was afraid of retaliation from Hamas.
Why have so many believed every report from Gaza journalists?

@Islandsofsand
For me it is an anti-Israeli government narrative. Israel has a right to exist, most Israelis just want to live in peace. It’s their current government headed by an ego-maniac who thinks he’s the reincarnation of King David who has packed the top ministerial posts with extremist ethno-nationalists that are causing this chaos and war to never end. Hamas’ attack was avenged within days. There is no valid reason for this war to still be dragging on three years later.

https://mondoweiss.net/2026/09/netanyahu-just-incited-genocide-in-his-un-speech-heres-what-you-missed/

An anti- Israeli government narrative is one thing and a lot of people are critical of the current Israel government, including people from Israel, the UK and other countries. Nothing wrong with criticising a government.

Sometimes the narrative does shift into something more sinister though. Such as questioning Israel's right to exist. When I don't see the same question being asked about other existing countries right to exist.

Ah yes, the famine and starvation, reinforced by pictures of Syrian kids.
If you look at the death statistics published by Hamas for 2025, there was no death by starvation.

As of August 2025, over a year ago, 361 Gazans, mostly children, had died of starvation as per the WHO. I take what official organisations say over Israeli propaganda any day. If an Israeli spokesperson said they had chicken for dinner last night, I would have no idea what they had for dinner but I'll know it wasn't chicken.
https://www.un.org/unispal/document/security-council-press-release-27aug25/
https://www.who.int/publications/m/item/public-health-situation-analysis---occupied-palestinian-territory-September

However, during the famine that broke out in Gaza last summer, after Israel decided to completely prevent food from entering the Strip for 78 days, 475 people died, according to the Gaza Health Ministry.

Haaretz obtained a list of those who died, whose causes of death were recorded as malnutrition or illnesses associated with malnutrition, including cardiac arrest and kidney failure. The list includes 106 infants who died before the age of 1, including seven who died on the day they were born as a result of their mothers' malnutrition. Of those who died from malnutrition, 224 were women.

Source Haaratz
Can I ask where you got your figures from?

Yes - exactly.

I would say often not sometime....It needs to be understood a lot of pro Palestinians who ostensibly have sympathy for the innocent people of Gaza harbour a desire for Israel literally to be removed as a state so there is Islamic Palestinian rule....The true meaning of the odious phrase 'Free Palestine'.

Hamas , Iran etc. have realised the use of useful idiots in the West especially amongst the young and are eager to push their cause onto the gullible.

Can you provide any evidence whatsoever for this?

Did you see it on a "hate march"?

I hadn’t actually thought that acknowledging an anti-Israel narrative would lead to question Israel’s right to exist and anti-Zionism, but now it’s been pointed out- I can see why people could fear this. I certainly didn’t mean to question this.

Empirically - the narratives are geared towards criticisms of those making the decisions. The narratives in newspapers are always speaking about government / IDF / police actions.

But there is a blur and we should acknowledge it. Criticisms of a democratic country lead to thoughts about how a particular leader/ party even came into power and what that says of the citizens of that country.

How did Palestinians vote in Hamas? What does this say about Palestinians? Do they still support Hamas? Legitimate questions asked on this forum.

Israel is a democratic country and it will be really interesting to which leaders gets votes with what policies in upcoming elections.

I feel sorry for those living in Israel whose views don’t align with their current government. Hopefully they voices will shine through at the upcoming election.

There are literally so many examples and I haven’t got time to find them all for you

At a London rally organized by the Palestine Solidarity Campaign on October 9, 2023, demonstrators in front of the Israeli embassy chanted “From the River to the Sea” – a call for Palestinian control over the entirety of Israel’s borders, from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea and an echo of Hamas’ manifesto.

Use of swastikas to link Israel to Nazi ideology

Calls for intifada

University of London chose to go in a pro Palestinian March on October 7th

The Iranian man who condemned Hamas on a march in London had to be protected by police from angry pro Palestinian demonstrators.

The tearing down of hostage posters
defacing posters with swastikas
marching near synagogues to intimidate Jewish communities

I could provide loads of links but I haven’t the time

“I feel sorry for those living in Israel whose views don’t align with their current government. Hopefully they voices will shine through at the upcoming election.”

I agree. But for peace we also need the moderate Palestinians to reject Hamas.

@Martymcfly24
This is particularly shocking
https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/green-party-conference-zack-polanski-zionism-5m7mtsfhr

Zack Polanski’s has refused to say that Israel has a right to exist .

There is a large divide and middle ground between rejecting Hamas - which should be universal - to flattening Gaza and taking over increasing amounts of occupied territories.

Is what you mean that there will always need to politicians willing to act aggressively and decisively to protect Israelis?

There will always need to potential of above - but the question is - to what extent the country wants to work towards a political solution.

Do you think the proposed E1 settlement should proceed?

I agree it sometimes does happen and we should all acknowledge it and call it out when it happens.

Because they were only publishing the deaths from war injuries. That’s the rules on publishing death tolls directly caused by war.

I think you are incorrect. This article says they only publish statistics where a death certificate was issued.
https://www.haaretz.com/gaza/2026-10-02/ty-article/.premium/gaza-health-ministry-report-shows-excess-2025-deaths-lower-than-experts-expected/000001a0-fc97-de00-adfb-fcd744850000

The actual report is here:
https://www.moh.gov.ps/portal/wp-content/uploads/2026/09/Annual_Mortality_Report_Gaza_2025_EN.pdf

the headline results include:

• The under-five mortality rate reached 33.4 per 1,000 live births, compared with 15.8 per 1,000 when deaths resulting from war operations are excluded. The persistence of the elevated rate even after
excluding the effect of direct targeting demonstrates that the war has left an extended health impact on children that goes beyond direct injury — through the deterioration of nutrition, primary health care, and immunization services — an effect likely to persist even after the cessation of military operations unless this group is targeted with dedicated health-recovery programs.

Malnutrition makes the vulnerable more liable to die from other causes eg infectious diseases. You can’t use this data to say impediment to aid didn’t result in an excess of deaths.

Thank you, I wasn’t aware of this particular report.

Too, deaths from malnutrition are deaths from starving.

Nope none of that proves @mids2019 point that pro Palestinians have a "desire for Israel literally to be removed as a state so there is Islamic Palestinian rule".

All shitty behavior yes but let's face it that has been a marker of protesters from both sides.

It's like claiming that a majority of pro Israelis want Palestine to be removed so there is one state of Israel only.

Would be interesting if @mids2019 could actually back up their claims themselves as it's quite easy to fire these claims around.

I can't read the article about Polanski.

Deaths from malnutrition are also related to genetic illnesses and disease.

The UK has over 400 deaths a year with malnutrition the cause or a factor in the cause of death.

The doubling of deaths in Gaza in 2025 for under 5 will down to lack of access to basic amenities including clean water, enough food, adequate housing, immunisations etc.

Those with underlying genetic conditions or inherited diseases will be more vulnerable to malnutrition.

However - there won’t have been a doubling of genetic conditions to explain the excess deaths. This is as a consequence of the destruction of Palestinian infrastructure and lack of access to basic needs.

Shocking that Hamas cared so little about Palestinians that they knowingly created this disaster.
I truly believe that , for Hamas , each innocent Palestinan child who dies is a PR opportunity.

I would not have been able to envisage the ruthlessness by which the IDF / Israel responded. I can’t understand how any humane person could have supported IDF response in advance if they foresaw what was to happen.

Hamas sees each death as PR opportunity? Potentially - would you have preferred the world was kept in the dark about what happened?

Would you not? I was scared for the Palestinians when I heard what Hamas did. I thought it highly likely that Netanyahu would respond with great violence to avenge what Hamas had done and was not surprised when it became a war.

If I could have guessed it, I assume Hamas knew what they were unleashing.