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Conflict in the Middle East

Has the West been taken in by Hamas’ lies and anti Israeli narrative?

622 replies

OpheliaWasntMad · 25/09/2026 16:59

https://nypost.com/2026/09/21/opinion/journalist-admits-anti-israel-narrative-driving-protests-is-based-on-hamas-lies/

This journalist admits that his reporting from Gaza was not accurate because he was afraid of retaliation from Hamas.
Why have so many believed every report from Gaza journalists?

Palestinian photojournalist Motaz Azaiza

Journalist admits: Anti-Israel narrative driving protests is based on Hamas lies

Journalist Motaz Azaiza’s new revelations exposing “SMART,” a Hamas-controlled group of reporters used to manage the media narrative about Gaza, reveal uncomfortable but important truths about near…

https://nypost.com/2026/09/21/opinion/journalist-admits-anti-israel-narrative-driving-protests-is-based-on-hamas-lies/

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Martymcfly24 · 02/10/2026 18:26

OpheliaWasntMad · 02/10/2026 18:07

I think if the IDF really was genocidal the numbers would look different.

Netanyahu and his cronies are smart enough to know that nobody even the US would accept millions dead. However what they have done is slower than dropping bombs.
Just 1.5% of agricultural land left.
97% livestock destroyed.
82% of buildings damaged. (Pictures are there to see)
All fertility and reproductive centers destroyed including 4000 embryos.
90% maternity facilities destroyed.
Life expectancy has dropped by 40 years.
All of these numbers will massively impact life quality and expectancy in Gaza. It's a death by a thousand cuts as well as the more obvious airstrikes and drones.

SharonEllis · 02/10/2026 19:10

She didnt say that genocide's 'legal definition is simply based on percentage of population killed' did she? Or that she thought any of it is acceptable. Its completely pointless and offensive to put words into people's mouths. But, if people really have an intention (the key word) to commit genocide and they have the means and opportunity to do so, which is undoubtedly the case in Gaza, then the fact that such a relatively small proportion was killed suggests that the intention was not really there, doesn't it? The destruction of so many buildings, rather than so many people also points a. To a deliberate strategy of not killing people and b. The deliberate strategy if Hamas to fight in such a way that buildings would be destroyed, mainly due to the tunnel network.

OpheliaWasntMad · 02/10/2026 19:25

Martymcfly24 · 02/10/2026 18:26

Netanyahu and his cronies are smart enough to know that nobody even the US would accept millions dead. However what they have done is slower than dropping bombs.
Just 1.5% of agricultural land left.
97% livestock destroyed.
82% of buildings damaged. (Pictures are there to see)
All fertility and reproductive centers destroyed including 4000 embryos.
90% maternity facilities destroyed.
Life expectancy has dropped by 40 years.
All of these numbers will massively impact life quality and expectancy in Gaza. It's a death by a thousand cuts as well as the more obvious airstrikes and drones.

Yes - i agree that Gaza has become unliveable.

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SharonEllis · 02/10/2026 19:27

I happened to read today that 95% of Jews in Lithuania were murdered in the Holocaust. To lessen the meaning of genocide for today's political purposes really is despicable.

Boolabus · 02/10/2026 19:37

SharonEllis · 02/10/2026 19:27

I happened to read today that 95% of Jews in Lithuania were murdered in the Holocaust. To lessen the meaning of genocide for today's political purposes really is despicable.

No one is trying to do that. The Holocaust was an horrific event that I hope we never ever see again and it stands alone in that. The current legal definition of genocide was adopted in 1948 which is what people are basing their view of Gaza on. To suggest that the people who consider what is happening in Gaza as a genocide is for political purposes is more than despicable it is offensive, as is pulling the death rate of Jews during the Holocaust for some kind of twisted point.

Boolabus · 02/10/2026 19:41

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SingingShrews · 02/10/2026 19:50

SharonEllis · 02/10/2026 19:10

She didnt say that genocide's 'legal definition is simply based on percentage of population killed' did she? Or that she thought any of it is acceptable. Its completely pointless and offensive to put words into people's mouths. But, if people really have an intention (the key word) to commit genocide and they have the means and opportunity to do so, which is undoubtedly the case in Gaza, then the fact that such a relatively small proportion was killed suggests that the intention was not really there, doesn't it? The destruction of so many buildings, rather than so many people also points a. To a deliberate strategy of not killing people and b. The deliberate strategy if Hamas to fight in such a way that buildings would be destroyed, mainly due to the tunnel network.

What do you think the intention of stopping aid entering Gaza was? Do you think that Israel believed that Palestinian children could live on air and rubble so being starved and denied medication wouldn't kill them?

MsAmerica · 02/10/2026 20:16

Twiglets1 · 01/10/2026 21:49

Which ones strive to be neutral in your opinion?

I don't want to play that game. Especially as I'm in the U.S. and don't know what's prominent in the U.K.
I will say one thing, though: In my experience, right-wing outlets show their bias by being likelier to be wrong or lying, but left-wing outlets tend to show their bias only in the choice of subjects, such as being more likely to cover environmental stories.

Islandsofsand · 02/10/2026 20:45

OpheliaWasntMad · 02/10/2026 19:25

Yes - i agree that Gaza has become unliveable.

Thank you for acknowledging this.

Unliveable and also with too many deaths. The number of children killed is heartbreaking.

What ever we label what has happened - you can then also understand why people are concerned about what has happened.

The title of this thread risks being dismissive of the concerns. It’s not all based on Hamas lies nor anti Israeli narrative.

OpheliaWasntMad · 02/10/2026 21:17

Islandsofsand · 02/10/2026 20:45

Thank you for acknowledging this.

Unliveable and also with too many deaths. The number of children killed is heartbreaking.

What ever we label what has happened - you can then also understand why people are concerned about what has happened.

The title of this thread risks being dismissive of the concerns. It’s not all based on Hamas lies nor anti Israeli narrative.

I do think the narrative is one sided and anti Israeli.

Hamas’ manifesto explicitly called for the destruction of Israel and the establishment of an Islamic state from “the river to the sea” and everything they’ve done shows this is still their aim.

I think Israel had to remove Hamas to secure the safety of their citizens. Israel is fighting for their survival.

I acknowledge that there have been atrocities ( eg Hind Rajab) and these must be investigated and the perpetrators held to account.
the extremism of the government and settlers is terrible.

Do posters believe there is a way that Israel could have defeated Hamas without causing suffering to innocent Palestinians? I’m not sure that would be possible.

If Israel didn’t defeat Hamas - we can be sure more innocent Israelis would suffer- as shown by October 7th.

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Twiglets1 · 02/10/2026 21:18

MsAmerica · 02/10/2026 20:16

I don't want to play that game. Especially as I'm in the U.S. and don't know what's prominent in the U.K.
I will say one thing, though: In my experience, right-wing outlets show their bias by being likelier to be wrong or lying, but left-wing outlets tend to show their bias only in the choice of subjects, such as being more likely to cover environmental stories.

Strange that you would raise the issue of sources that strive to be neutral and those that don’t (on a UK site) but then not want to “play that game”.

But ok.

AnyfoolcanknowThepointistounderstand · 02/10/2026 21:50

Boolabus · 02/10/2026 19:37

No one is trying to do that. The Holocaust was an horrific event that I hope we never ever see again and it stands alone in that. The current legal definition of genocide was adopted in 1948 which is what people are basing their view of Gaza on. To suggest that the people who consider what is happening in Gaza as a genocide is for political purposes is more than despicable it is offensive, as is pulling the death rate of Jews during the Holocaust for some kind of twisted point.

People ARE basing their view of a genocide in Gaza for political (and Jew hatred) reasons.

The definition is established in Article II of the 1948 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide

Article II
In the present Convention, genocide means ANY of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

  1. Killing members of the group;
  2. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
  3. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
  4. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

Now there is documented evidence, from Palestinians themselves even, that the IDF-

  1. issued thousands of evacuation orders, leaflets, phone calls, texts as warnings of bombings,
  2. created humanitarian corridors and safe zones, implemented localised pauses and routes specifically to allow aid movement—for example, a daily pause along the Kerem Shalom–Salah al-Din route in June 2024, maintained coordination mechanisms with the UN and international NGOs and facilitated humanitarian missions including complex missions in active combat areas,
  3. facilitated humanitarian pauses in fighting specifically to enable a mass polio vaccination in Gaza in 2024,
  4. facilitated the entry of 1 tonne of aid per person in Gaza, facilitated thousands of tonnes of tents, blankets, clothing, heating equipment and other winter supplies,
  5. supplied water through Israeli pipelines, and allowed fuel for water, sewage and hospital systems, reopened/maintained water pipelines into Gaza and coordinated repairs to water infrastructure with the northern pipeline providing an average of about 50 litres per person per day at one point,
  6. participated in humanitarian airdrops of food and other supplies, particularly into northern Gaza.
  7. facilitated medical supplies, international medical teams and field hospitals inside Gaza,
  8. coordinated evacuation of seriously ill and wounded Palestinians, including children, to Egypt, Jordan, the UAE and European countries for treatment,
  9. coordinated deliveries of fuel, oxygen, incubators, medicines and other supplies to hospitals, including hospitals in northern Gaza, coordinated repairs to vital infrastructure for hospitals and bakeries,
  10. facilitated the reopening/operation of bakeries; Israeli figures reported up to 26 bakeries producing nearly 5 million breads/rolls/pitas per day in May 2024,
  11. facilitated GHF in delivering 62,000 tonnes of food, equivalent to around 187 million meals, directly to Gazans and approximately 1.1 million supplementary-food packages for children

SO, if the objective were to physically destroy Palestinians as a group, why would Israel repeatedly take measures whose purpose and foreseeable effect were to preserve Palestinian civilian life - food, water, medical evacuation, vaccination, humanitarian pauses, hospitals, bakeries, aid distribution, etc?

People commenting about the legal cases are also missing that the ICC 'on the ground fact finding' mission to Gaza, planned for months and with ICC Investigative Staff due to arrive in Israel on the 20th May 2024, was abruptly cancelled without notice on that same day as the ICC Prosecutor (under investigation for sexual misconduct) announced he was applying for arrest warrants for the Israeli PM and Defence Minister instead!

In January 2024, the ICJ did not rule that Israel was committing genocide. It found that Palestinians in Gaza had plausible rights to protection from acts of genocide (pretty obvious no!) and ordered provisional measures while the case proceeded. The Court expressly noted that it was not making a final determination of genocidal intent at that stage.

On the 24th May 2024 Order, Israel was ordered to take effective measures to ensure “unimpeded access to the Gaza Strip” for any commission of inquiry, fact-finding mission or other investigative body mandated by competent UN organs to investigate allegations of genocide.

The relevant UN body, the UN Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, and Israel, has sought access to Gaza.

Israel has long argued that this particular Commission is biased and lacks impartiality, objecting to its mandate, methodology and what Israel regards as its predetermined hostility toward Israel. Israel therefore has generally refused to cooperate with it rather than treating it as a neutral investigative body. Israel has continued to make this objection in its responses to subsequent Commission reports.

Israel had also refused access to this UN Commission's predecessors during previous Gaza conflicts, so this wasn't an entirely new policy created after October 7.

I think it's important that to remember that although the* *cancelled ICC on-the-ground investigation would not have formally fulfilled the specific investigative mechanism contemplated by the ICJ's May 2024 order, because it wasn't a UN-mandated body, it potentially could have provided valuable first-hand evidence relevant to the very factual questions underlying the ICJ genocide proceedings.

Someone blessed with critical thinking skills may think it was very convenient that the agreed ICC fact finding mission was cancelled on the 20th May and the ICJ Order to give access to a UN body, who they knew Israel wouldn't give access to, was made on the 24th May.

1948 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide | United Nations

https://www.google.com/goto?url=CAEScQHrOzAVXZIRojnTPW4Bmt-8zpfFVxz6SQ6kliymtsfD0RNCKn_N9InJ61IrmBf0BQAoNxdmPt_ENnDt1duJKScNkQWKAcpkAA4pYe3In0X8QCTR5k--Ok-8Iy8MR1PDbTiX0UjUGXBj7I36BzovfKKJ

SingingShrews · 02/10/2026 21:55

OpheliaWasntMad · 02/10/2026 21:17

I do think the narrative is one sided and anti Israeli.

Hamas’ manifesto explicitly called for the destruction of Israel and the establishment of an Islamic state from “the river to the sea” and everything they’ve done shows this is still their aim.

I think Israel had to remove Hamas to secure the safety of their citizens. Israel is fighting for their survival.

I acknowledge that there have been atrocities ( eg Hind Rajab) and these must be investigated and the perpetrators held to account.
the extremism of the government and settlers is terrible.

Do posters believe there is a way that Israel could have defeated Hamas without causing suffering to innocent Palestinians? I’m not sure that would be possible.

If Israel didn’t defeat Hamas - we can be sure more innocent Israelis would suffer- as shown by October 7th.

Do you believe Hamas have been defeated?

OpheliaWasntMad · 02/10/2026 21:59

SingingShrews · 02/10/2026 21:55

Do you believe Hamas have been defeated?

No - sadly not. Apparently there’s still many thousands ( 30,000) Hamas operatives in Gaza.

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SingingShrews · 02/10/2026 22:19

OpheliaWasntMad · 02/10/2026 21:59

No - sadly not. Apparently there’s still many thousands ( 30,000) Hamas operatives in Gaza.

According to the IDF, before October 7, Hamas had some 30,000 fighters in the Gaza Strip, split into five regional brigades, 24 battalions and some 140 companies.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-details-significant-blows-its-dealt-to-hamass-northern-gaza-forces-commanders/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

So what exactly do you think destroying the majority of Gaza, killing 80,000+ people, starving a whole nation and then taking over 70% of Gaza has achieved?

You are asking 'if Israel could have defeated Hamas' without causing suffering to innocent Palestinians' whilst acknowledging that Israel haven't actually defeated Hamas at all. In fact according to you there are the same number of fighters now as there was in 2023. So what was it all for? The extraordinary suffering placed upon Palestinians what exactly has that achieved?

Islandsofsand · 02/10/2026 22:21

OpheliaWasntMad · 02/10/2026 21:17

I do think the narrative is one sided and anti Israeli.

Hamas’ manifesto explicitly called for the destruction of Israel and the establishment of an Islamic state from “the river to the sea” and everything they’ve done shows this is still their aim.

I think Israel had to remove Hamas to secure the safety of their citizens. Israel is fighting for their survival.

I acknowledge that there have been atrocities ( eg Hind Rajab) and these must be investigated and the perpetrators held to account.
the extremism of the government and settlers is terrible.

Do posters believe there is a way that Israel could have defeated Hamas without causing suffering to innocent Palestinians? I’m not sure that would be possible.

If Israel didn’t defeat Hamas - we can be sure more innocent Israelis would suffer- as shown by October 7th.

I agree with so much of your post.

There is an anti-Israeli narrative - but I don’t think it’s all based on Hamas lies - and you’ve raised some valid concerns.

Do I think Israel had an option? Yes, my view is that they could have fought the war differently but I respect people’s right to continue to defend what has happened in Gaza. A court will ultimately decide on proportionality of Israeli response but don’t be surprised at the disquiet in the interim given that Gaza is uninhabitable and thousands of children have been killed / maimed / traumatised. It’s not all based on antisemitism.

Will it make Israel nor Jewish people safer in the longer run? Maybe- let’s hope it was worth this death and destruction. For Israelis at least.

OpheliaWasntMad · 02/10/2026 22:44

SingingShrews · 02/10/2026 22:19

According to the IDF, before October 7, Hamas had some 30,000 fighters in the Gaza Strip, split into five regional brigades, 24 battalions and some 140 companies.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-details-significant-blows-its-dealt-to-hamass-northern-gaza-forces-commanders/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

So what exactly do you think destroying the majority of Gaza, killing 80,000+ people, starving a whole nation and then taking over 70% of Gaza has achieved?

You are asking 'if Israel could have defeated Hamas' without causing suffering to innocent Palestinians' whilst acknowledging that Israel haven't actually defeated Hamas at all. In fact according to you there are the same number of fighters now as there was in 2023. So what was it all for? The extraordinary suffering placed upon Palestinians what exactly has that achieved?

Unless Hamas is defeated Israelis will never be safe . October 7th will happen again and again. Hamas themselves have said this.

Israelis are facing an existential threat. There are many people who don’t think Israel has a right to exist. Including apparently the Green Party (Zack Polanski refused on BBC news tonight to say that Israel had a right to exist . He would only say “people have a right to exist”! )

I think the anti Israeli narrative is a distortion of the complex truth .

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SingingShrews · 02/10/2026 23:07

OpheliaWasntMad · 02/10/2026 22:44

Unless Hamas is defeated Israelis will never be safe . October 7th will happen again and again. Hamas themselves have said this.

Israelis are facing an existential threat. There are many people who don’t think Israel has a right to exist. Including apparently the Green Party (Zack Polanski refused on BBC news tonight to say that Israel had a right to exist . He would only say “people have a right to exist”! )

I think the anti Israeli narrative is a distortion of the complex truth .

I'm not sure of the relevance of this to my post tbh.

Oct 7 level killing happened again and again in Gaza, 1000s of people killed, again and again. For what? 30000 Hamas fighters before, 30000 Hamas fighters now. Is it OK for Oct 7 level of killings to happen to Palestinians over and over? Is it OK that Palestinians face an existential threat from Israel, the leaders of Israel are clear that they don't think Palestine has the right to exist. I mean what's your point exactly?

Hamas don't want Israel to exist and Israel don't want Palestine to exist but we can only be anti Hamas? Why?

Unless Hamas is defeated Israelis will never be safe . October 7th will happen again and again. Hamas themselves have said this.

Israel have already killed 80,000 people, taken 70% of Gaza, starved everyone and made pretty much everyone homeless. Do you think Israel should keep going, what do you want to see Israel doing next?

OpheliaWasntMad · 02/10/2026 23:22

SingingShrews · 02/10/2026 23:07

I'm not sure of the relevance of this to my post tbh.

Oct 7 level killing happened again and again in Gaza, 1000s of people killed, again and again. For what? 30000 Hamas fighters before, 30000 Hamas fighters now. Is it OK for Oct 7 level of killings to happen to Palestinians over and over? Is it OK that Palestinians face an existential threat from Israel, the leaders of Israel are clear that they don't think Palestine has the right to exist. I mean what's your point exactly?

Hamas don't want Israel to exist and Israel don't want Palestine to exist but we can only be anti Hamas? Why?

Unless Hamas is defeated Israelis will never be safe . October 7th will happen again and again. Hamas themselves have said this.

Israel have already killed 80,000 people, taken 70% of Gaza, starved everyone and made pretty much everyone homeless. Do you think Israel should keep going, what do you want to see Israel doing next?

Edited

I’d like to see Hamas defeated.
I don’t claim to know the best way to achieve that. Do you know a good way to defeat Hamas?

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SingingShrews · 03/10/2026 00:08

OpheliaWasntMad · 02/10/2026 23:22

I’d like to see Hamas defeated.
I don’t claim to know the best way to achieve that. Do you know a good way to defeat Hamas?

Edited

I think that Hamas can't be defeated, no more than Israel can be defeated so they will both have to come to terms with that put their murderous plans aside, accept that both Palestine and Israel have a right to exist and find a way to move forward beside each other.

Given that Hamas started with 30000 fighters and you say they still have 30000 fighters, given the state of Gaza, the number of deaths, the scale of suffering do you think Hamas can be defeated? And if they could be what happens then? We all just accept, Palestinians included, that Palestine can never exist because Israel 'won' and Israel say that Palestine doesn't have a right to exist. Israel can't absorb all of the Palestinians into Israel because it messes with their 'ratios' and the fact that Israel has to have a Jewish majority. So what happens to Palestinians then? Either ethnic cleansing or they remain stateless forever? Is that an acceptable outcome?

Squeezingwildoranges · 03/10/2026 07:31

KatiePricesKnickers · 02/10/2026 14:58

@Squeezingwildoranges ”However, the court ruled that it was plausible that Palestinians have a right to be protected from genocide. Why would they rule that they need to be protected from genocide if it was deemed there was no genocide.”

Everyone should be protected from genocide.
The IDF have gone out of their way to ensure they have not committed mass murder and can be accused of genocide.

However ‘scholars’ have managed to poison the term genocide to their own ends and so this is where we are. Not talking about mass murder, but talking about what constitutes a genocide and can we stick it on the IDF.

I do hope that they also rule October 7th an attempted genocide, and Hamas id a genocidal organization.

One of the instructions the ICJ have given Israel is that they need to preserve evidence in order for them to rule if it was a genocide. The IDF are currently using bulldozers to clear the rubble including the bodies buried underneath in direct contravention of these orders. Along with not allowing independent journalists in, they are now actively hiding evidence of the genocide.

Martymcfly24 · 03/10/2026 07:44

Squeezingwildoranges · 03/10/2026 07:31

One of the instructions the ICJ have given Israel is that they need to preserve evidence in order for them to rule if it was a genocide. The IDF are currently using bulldozers to clear the rubble including the bodies buried underneath in direct contravention of these orders. Along with not allowing independent journalists in, they are now actively hiding evidence of the genocide.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/is-israel-erasing-evidence-of-alleged-war-crimes-in-gaza-a-visual-investigation-9.7357122

Good article on that exact issue here from 8 days ago.

NullaEffugium · 03/10/2026 08:40

@Islandsofsand
Hamas committed an atrocity on 7/10. The numbers killed don’t define a genocide - maybe the courts may even define what happened on 7/10 as genocide?

Since Israel refused to sign the Genocide Convention and refused to allow ICC and ICJ jurisdiction over their country and citizens, Israel cannot file a case with the ICJ alleging genocide nor can any country do so on their behalf. I think it is important to note that because Israel opted out of the international court system, they cannot expect any justice for any wrongs done to them from it. So no international court has jurisdiction to determine whether 7/10 was genocide.

NullaEffugium · 03/10/2026 08:51

SharonEllis · 02/10/2026 19:27

I happened to read today that 95% of Jews in Lithuania were murdered in the Holocaust. To lessen the meaning of genocide for today's political purposes really is despicable.

I really do not agree with weaponising the Holocaust like this. It was one of the worst genocides in history so it is wrong to make it the threshold for all genocide. I know many people think of genocide and Holocaust as interchangeable, but there have been many genocides that were not as extreme but were still genocides.

No one is weakening the definition of genocide for political purposes, as a pp wrote, the definition we are using dates from 1948 and was written by a Holocaust survivor. Who best to understand genocide than a genocide survivor?

It is you who and others who are calling for the definition to be watered down for your own political purposes. The court will compare the evidence to the 1948 definition and determine if genocide happened or is happening in Gaza. It’s really not up to you or me to criticise the definition.

Islandsofsand · 03/10/2026 08:51

OpheliaWasntMad · 02/10/2026 22:44

Unless Hamas is defeated Israelis will never be safe . October 7th will happen again and again. Hamas themselves have said this.

Israelis are facing an existential threat. There are many people who don’t think Israel has a right to exist. Including apparently the Green Party (Zack Polanski refused on BBC news tonight to say that Israel had a right to exist . He would only say “people have a right to exist”! )

I think the anti Israeli narrative is a distortion of the complex truth .

You can’t kill an ideology.

There is a complex truth on both sides but that shouldn’t be used to condone war crimes.

Neither Hamas nor Netanyahu’s government help themselves with how the world views them. Take what’s happening in the Occupied Territories. I’ve never seen the unanimity in various countries stance against this before. I also think this is partly due to what’s happened in Gaza- as people can only turn a blind eye for so long.

Sometimes an anti-Israel narrative is quite appropriate.

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