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Conflict in the Middle East

Hamas to disarm.....

143 replies

mids2019 · 31/07/2026 05:28

Have Hamas seen sense and realised there is little hope for their death cult? Is this is a significant moment towards peace?

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inamarina · 02/08/2026 12:13

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Palestine has a right to defend itself.

How did the ‘self defence’ (if that’s what you call October 7th) work out for Gaza?

KeeperOfTheSevenKeys · 02/08/2026 12:17

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What did the Bibas children do that they eeded defending against? The rape victims? How was that defense?

Twiglets1 · 02/08/2026 12:18

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You're just repeating the same points and ignoring anything you find difficult to answer like why not direct some of that hate towards Hamas.

Stop projecting your lack of empathy for civilians onto me. I'm not the one who doesn't care about innocent civilians getting murdered, my only argument is with Hamas. I've made it clear throughout that I have every sympathy with innocent civilians in Gaza and the West Bank who are pawns in this war being badly treated by both sides.

You are the one who finds it odd that I would expect you to care about the (mainly Jewish) victims of October 7th. You make that very clear when you say you want me to feel terribly sorry for the victims of October 7th. Why?

The reason why is that I expect anyone with humanity to feel sorry for the victims of October 7th. In the same way that I expect people to feel sorry for Palestinians living and dying in Gaza and the West Bank. To pick a side to the extent that you can only feel sympathy for one side is scary to me.

dairydebris · 02/08/2026 12:25

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inamarina · 02/08/2026 12:34

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It’s so blatant, isn’t it?

dairydebris · 02/08/2026 12:52

inamarina · 02/08/2026 12:34

It’s so blatant, isn’t it?

It still shocks me when people say this so openly though.

inamarina · 02/08/2026 13:00

dairydebris · 02/08/2026 12:52

It still shocks me when people say this so openly though.

Same. It’s so depressing.
Also, why on earth was your message deleted?

dairydebris · 02/08/2026 13:08

inamarina · 02/08/2026 13:00

Same. It’s so depressing.
Also, why on earth was your message deleted?

I don't know... I've emailed to ask. I hope because I quoted the pp when they openly supported terrorism? If not, perhaps the moderator felt I shamed that poster by pointing out they posted with no shame.

I really hope the former as I feel its really important to point out support for terrorism and extremists wherever possible. Its hiding in plain sight so often on here.

If you want I'll let you know what mnhq say.

Twiglets1 · 02/08/2026 13:18

I'm going to email too, think we have a very biased mod here so I'm going to ask for a different mod to review the whole thread, including deleted posts.

dairydebris · 02/08/2026 13:22

dairydebris · 02/08/2026 13:08

I don't know... I've emailed to ask. I hope because I quoted the pp when they openly supported terrorism? If not, perhaps the moderator felt I shamed that poster by pointing out they posted with no shame.

I really hope the former as I feel its really important to point out support for terrorism and extremists wherever possible. Its hiding in plain sight so often on here.

If you want I'll let you know what mnhq say.

My message was deleted as mnhq felt that it was a personal attack.

So, the pp felt free to comment on here that the acts of rape, murder and kidnapping of innocents on 7 October were self defence.

But my pointing out how shameful referring to these acts as 'self defence' is was seen as a personal attack- by quoting the posters own words verbatim back to them.

Referring to 7 October as self defence is indeed shameful. I'll stand by that forever.

Deeply frustrating.

inamarina · 02/08/2026 13:27

dairydebris · 02/08/2026 13:22

My message was deleted as mnhq felt that it was a personal attack.

So, the pp felt free to comment on here that the acts of rape, murder and kidnapping of innocents on 7 October were self defence.

But my pointing out how shameful referring to these acts as 'self defence' is was seen as a personal attack- by quoting the posters own words verbatim back to them.

Referring to 7 October as self defence is indeed shameful. I'll stand by that forever.

Deeply frustrating.

Fully agree. Killing teenagers at a festival and peaceniks in a Kibbutz is ‘self defence’, sure 🤦‍♀️

dairydebris · 02/08/2026 13:31

inamarina · 02/08/2026 13:27

Fully agree. Killing teenagers at a festival and peaceniks in a Kibbutz is ‘self defence’, sure 🤦‍♀️

And pointing out how shameful that is is a personal attack... righto.

But actually referring to rape, murder amd kidnapping as self defence is all good.

I hope others can see how topsy turvey this is.

Echobelly · 02/08/2026 13:33

As far as I'm aware we're yet to hear assent from Israel on this, which does not fill me with faith, neither does Hamas' record.

inamarina · 02/08/2026 13:36

dairydebris · 02/08/2026 13:31

And pointing out how shameful that is is a personal attack... righto.

But actually referring to rape, murder amd kidnapping as self defence is all good.

I hope others can see how topsy turvey this is.

I hope so too.

Twiglets1 · 02/08/2026 14:20

dairydebris · 02/08/2026 13:31

And pointing out how shameful that is is a personal attack... righto.

But actually referring to rape, murder amd kidnapping as self defence is all good.

I hope others can see how topsy turvey this is.

But “shame on you” apparently isn’t personal, nor is the poster asking me where is my humanity. Yet when I posed the question back to them my post got deleted. It makes no sense to delete threads where we are reflecting their words back to them yet their posts aren’t deleted.

localnotail · 02/08/2026 14:22

Wow, and this person is walking among us.

Raping and brutally killing defenceless women, elderly people and children is "self-defence", according to Francine84. So as kidnapping, torture and corpse desecration. Just because its done by someone who opposes Israel...The length people would go to defend the indefensible.

localnotail · 02/08/2026 14:26

So, basically, if Ukrainians will enter Russia's territory, kill and rape women and children, burn a village of two it would all be ok as its classed "self-defence". Not a war crime, no no no.

Or it only applies to Hamas?

JadeHare · 02/08/2026 14:27

Echobelly · 02/08/2026 13:33

As far as I'm aware we're yet to hear assent from Israel on this, which does not fill me with faith, neither does Hamas' record.

Doesn’t look like all of Israel agree with this.

Israeli Energy Minister Eli Cohen says Israel, which controls 70 percent of Gaza, should take “full control” of the Palestinian enclave.
Cohen also said there was no deal to halt attacks on Gaza. He is the latest senior Israeli leader to voice resistance to a US-brokered deal with Hamas that would see the group disarm.
Far-right Israeli National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir earlier dismissed the draft of the deal as “not acceptable”.

dairydebris · 02/08/2026 14:30

Twiglets1 · 02/08/2026 14:20

But “shame on you” apparently isn’t personal, nor is the poster asking me where is my humanity. Yet when I posed the question back to them my post got deleted. It makes no sense to delete threads where we are reflecting their words back to them yet their posts aren’t deleted.

Ahhh yes I see what you mean then.
This must be reporting? Someone has reported you and me but not the objectively worse statements from Francine.

Oh well. More madness. I suppose you could report but whats the point? Let it stand for everyone to see. Next theyll be suggesting they are being silenced 🙄.

Refering to October 7th as self defence is utterly shameful. That poster should be ashamed. Have at it mumsnet.

Martymcfly24 · 02/08/2026 14:33

JadeHare · 02/08/2026 14:27

Doesn’t look like all of Israel agree with this.

Israeli Energy Minister Eli Cohen says Israel, which controls 70 percent of Gaza, should take “full control” of the Palestinian enclave.
Cohen also said there was no deal to halt attacks on Gaza. He is the latest senior Israeli leader to voice resistance to a US-brokered deal with Hamas that would see the group disarm.
Far-right Israeli National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir earlier dismissed the draft of the deal as “not acceptable”.

And many killed over the last couple of nights including multiple children and babies in Israeli airstrikes. So clearly my early optimism was misplaced. There is no intention to halt the killing.

Twiglets1 · 02/08/2026 14:36

dairydebris · 02/08/2026 14:30

Ahhh yes I see what you mean then.
This must be reporting? Someone has reported you and me but not the objectively worse statements from Francine.

Oh well. More madness. I suppose you could report but whats the point? Let it stand for everyone to see. Next theyll be suggesting they are being silenced 🙄.

Refering to October 7th as self defence is utterly shameful. That poster should be ashamed. Have at it mumsnet.

The post where they told me to carry on defending genocide is still up so the mod who did the deletions presumably read the posts and thought that was ok… nice to know they stay so objective!

Someone has reported you and me but not Francine … shows that person is just looking for an excuse to report us because our words were less inflammatory than posts allowed to remain.

Hopefully another mod will review the thread and it will end up in the bin where it belongs with some of the sentiments being expressed.

Twiglets1 · 02/08/2026 14:40

If Mumsnet mods wants to align with the view that 7/10/23 was self defence then I will be contacting Justine directly to ask her if that is really what she wants for her website. I feel so sorry for any Jewish members of the community seeing this comment being allowed to stand while those challenging the antisemitism get silenced.

Twiglets1 · 02/08/2026 16:19

Moving on ... while Netanyahu has yet to comment publicly on the proposed disarmament deal with Hamas, we do have a statement from Doron Spielman, spokesperson for the Prime Minister’s Office.

He tells the AP that Israel’s intelligence assessment is that Hamas remains committed to rebuilding its military rather than genuinely demilitarizing. He says the IDF will not withdraw from Gaza — where it controls more than 60 percent of the territory — before Hamas disarms.

“Our assessment is that if we redeploy before Hamas is truly disarmed, it will quickly expand its presence throughout Gaza, rebuild its terrorist infrastructure, once again threaten Israeli communities, and seek to carry out another October 7-style attack,” he says, referring to the massacre in 2023 that triggered Israel’s war in Gaza.

“Disarming means physically giving up the weapons. Nothing less,” Spielman says.

www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/israel-shared-serious-security-concerns-with-us-over-hamas-disarmament-deal-pms-office-spokesman-says/

JadeHare · 04/08/2026 16:33

I read this in Slate. I looked up Slate to see if it was a reliable news source, and got this back,
“Slate is generally considered a reliable source for factual reporting, but it features a strong left-leaning political bias and focuses heavily on commentary rather than straight news. Independent media watchdogs rate its overall factual accuracy as mostly high or reliable”.

“Last Thursday, President Trump announced that his Board of Peace had achieved a “historic breakthrough” in which Hamas agreed to disarm and Israel agreed to withdraw from Gaza. It may seem that this happened months ago—not just four days ago, as I write this—because the deal has vanished from the headlines. There are two reasons why. First, so much has happened since then on other Middle East war fronts. Second, the agreement—which truly would be historic if it were true—turns out to have no basis in reality.”
“As posted on social media, the deal has the tonal earmarks of an official document. It bears a throat-clearing headline—“A Roadmap for Completing the Implementation of President Trump’s Comprehensive Peace Plan in Gaza”—followed by a detailed 15-point itinerary. But on scrutiny, there’s nothing meaningful in any of them.
There are two major shortcomings that keep it from carrying much more weight than a flawed first draft by a junior fellow at a minor think tank would. First, yes, it says Hamas must totally disarm and Israel must totally withdraw. But it doesn’t say who goes first, and leaders of both entities have since said they won’t move until the other side does.
Second, the document mentions several organizations that will monitor the procedure (perhaps in simultaneous phases), then step in to provide security, a police force, steps toward a civil society, and so forth. For example, Article 2 states:”
The timetable and implementation mechanisms of this Roadmap … shall be prepared within 14 days after all parties approve the Roadmap, which could be extended by a decision by the International Verification Committee (IVC). … [Then] the National Committee for the Administration of Gaza (NCAG) shall enter the Strip and start to assume its responsibilities. The IVC, that shall be established by the Board of Peace (BoP), comprising representatives from the guarantors, BoP and the International Stabilization Force, shall certify that both parties fulfill their commitments under the Roadmap before proceeding to the implementation of Phase 2.
“If you’re puzzled, that’s OK, you should be. All these organizations—NCAG, IVC, and ISF—are the names given to new security forces to keep the peace and technocratic groups to form a new government, but here’s the thing: None of them exist yet. A few people have been named to them, but they haven’t set up operations on the ground, nor have they been vetted by anyone whose vetting is necessary to give them power.
And take a close look at the first sentence in that paragraph: The timetable and mechanisms “shall be prepared within 14 days after all parties approve the Roadmap” (italics added). So far, none of the relevant parties—least of all Israel and Hamas—have approved any of these arrangements or obligations.
This is the key sign that the “Roadmap” was not prepared by serious people. Indeed, it seems to have been authored, for the most part, by Trump’s globetrotting emissaries, his son-in-law Jared Kushner and fellow real-estate tycoon Steve Witkoff, whose sorry stabs at diplomacy with Russia, Ukraine, and Iran should have alerted any president truly interested in peace that he should maybe send the amateurs back to Florida and bring some professionals back from the sidelines.”
“Another indicator of the document’s irrelevance is that it was issued by the Board of Peace, an organization that has no authority or power to do anything. Trump announced the board’s creation, and named himself its chairman, in September during the signing of the brief Israel–Hamas ceasefire that he had helped nail down. The idea was that the board would be the forum where Israel, the Palestinian Authority, and other Middle East countries discuss political reforms, reconstruction, and other issues relating to long-term peace in Gaza. However, by January, when Trump issued its formal charter, his vision for the board had expanded into a global powerhouse that would “promote stability, restore dependable and lawful governance, and secure enduring peace in areas affected or threatened by conflict.””
“In fact, though, it was never more than the vehicle for a Trump ego trip. The charter gave him the power to hire and fire the board members and to veto their decisions if he felt like it. Their tenure on the board would last three years, though permanent membership could be bought for $1 billion (paid to whom, to be used for what, was unclear). The leaders of a dozen or so countries, most having little power and no peacemaking experience, sought to butter up Trump by joining, though none of them forked over $1 billion. All the members of the U.N. Security Council turned down or ghosted Trump’s invitation.
Meanwhile, in the months since, the board has done nothing to advance the Gaza ceasefire or to help create a Palestinian, regional, international, or any other sort of organization that might play any role in peacemaking or socio-politico-economic reconstruction.”
As if to cap the matter, on Friday, the day after Trump’s historic breakthrough, Hamas said it wouldn’t take even the “first step” toward disarming until Israel stopped its attacks on Gaza, then cited further conditions on disarming beyond the first step. The next day, Israel renewed airstrikes on Gaza, killing at least two people and damaging warehouses filled with medical supplies (which Israelis said were also filled with weapons).
In short, the 15-point Roadmap is just another indulgence of Trump’s fantasies—a series of fancy scribblings on a board game. Its release last week may have also been timed to distract attention from Trump’s quagmire of his own making in Iran—an attempt to show that, despite it all, he is still a man of peace who deserves the Nobel Prize. No one, in Oslo or elsewhere, is convinced.

Excerpt From
“It’s Becoming Clear Now What Trump’s Board of Peace Really Is
Fred Kaplan
Slate
https://apple.news/AuActoirTTaOvoxhs-sg5JQ
This material may be protected by copyright.

It’s Becoming Clear Now What Trump’s Board of Peace Really Is — Slate

This is what happens when you bring in amateurs to negotiate peace in the Middle East.

https://apple.news/AuActoirTTaOvoxhs-sg5JQ

JadeHare · 04/08/2026 16:34

All a bit depressing really.

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