Are people still rejoicing about Iran?

[binnibonnieboo]

When Israel and the US took out Khamenei there was a thread on how great it was. Some of us expressed that it may not end well, given how forced regime change went previously in many countries. We were told to stop "leftsplaining" to Iranians. How do those people think it's going so far?

It isn't everyone against the war though. The ones that seem to like that it is going on longer, and with massive implications for the economy and other countries who are suffering (no pity for them then) with the problems with shipping etc. The told you so's and general posts to show this. Sadly, I think some have forgotten there are innocent people killed in this war. Personally, I hope that the Gulf Nations can put pressure on Iran to stop attacking them and the war comes to an end. However, Iran have shown how unstable the regime is and reinforces just why they should never have nuclear power.

"Or for that old chestnut " Don't you care about Iranian women"?" If you do, you must support carpet bombing!"."

You do post rubbish. No one supports 'carpet bombing'. Do you even know what that is. It isn't happening thankfully, as much as you might hope it might be so you can 'score a point'.

I have a suggestion, and it was being worked on 10 plus years ago, before Trump tore it up.

Bring Iran in from the cold. Don't let the US keep punishing them for a revolution that happened in '79.

Treat them as a different system. Accept them as a non ideal system, and reward them for moderating. And by reward, I mean lift sanctions etc. Treat them like the west treat Saudi Arabia, or at least work on it.

There was a nuke deal put in place in 2015. It was working. Sanctions were being lifted. In comes Trump, all torn up, cos Obamna.

Shooting protestors is a crime against humanity. It is atrocious, and should be acted on with sanctions, ICC arrest warrants, travel bans, the whole hog. And with that in mind, do a thought experiment. The leaders are sat there discussing the protests. It started about inflation, Switched to anti government. The hardliners say shoot them. The moderates so no, because we will be hit with sanctions etc. The hardliners say... we are already sanctioned to the hilt. There is nothing left they can do to us.

See my point ?

The attacks on countries who are not at war by Iran has implications.

Saudi Arabia has threatened to attack Iran in retaliation for strikes on Gulf states since the start of the US-Israeli war with Tehran.

The regime really don't care about it's people and appear to want more countries to attack them. Bizarre, although, why am I surprised that Iran and it's proxies care nothing of their own people - seen that before.

I think posters such as yourself who post about Iranian atrocities- rapidly followed by accusing everyone with reservations about this war of not caring as much as you and calling them " gleeful" - are trying to score a point.

If a state thinks legitimate punishment is torture, execution and gang rape for nurses who provide healthcare then it’s so far removed from something people there can deal with.

Then the issue of nuclear weapons which would likely be MAD, hence pretty much everyone saying they can’t have the weapons.

Both things make the IRGC brutal and difficult to resolve.

Why is it bizarre what they are doing ?

They are massively running down stocks of US supplied Patriot interceptors and THAAD systems. Their missiles and drones are increasingly getting through.

And they basically have the world by the balls over oil supply. And Trump is flapping around like a headless chicken calling former allies cowards, and threatening to spit the US from the rest of the world.

Objectively, they have the upper hand.

Why is it bizarre?

Who’s calling them gleeful?

Sorry @Ihatetomatoes . I responded to the wrong post.

Edit. I replied to correct poster but wrong post.

Exactly. Imagine punishing not just the protesters (which would be bad enough), but the medics who treat them. Beyond evil.

But that is not why Trump or Netanyahu is bombing them.

I listened to the IRGC aligned spokesperson the other day and the chilling part is they just ignore questioning on this.

It’s a rogue brutal state that is outside what international law can do. In fact those laws protect them.

Sorry @inamarina I confused you with another poster, I think.

Anyway, bottom line, I do not understand how anyone is so confident this war is a good idea, given the outcome. It's ok to have reservations. It's even ok to not have any alternate suggestions as to how to deal with the regime. Because it's not as simple as bombing them to shit. And we aren't foreign policy experts. Everybody is agreed the regime is evil beyond words. Few dispute that.

If Trump and Netanhayu had a few more reservations about the efficiency of their actions, things might have been better.

I’d be happy to hear from anyone who feels they know how to remove the threat of MAD in say five to ten years.

People like U v d Leyen or whomever, leaders or experts that people want to hear from. Those who make unequivocal statements on Iran having weapons. How to do that?

The silence, and focus on oil prices makes me cold sweat. Politicians know it’ll dampen their chances for votes but it’s a kick in the long grass issue.

Someone needs to reassure that in five to ten years time people aren’t saying they knew this, they knew Iran was a threat why was nothing done? By the time they have the capability they won’t be stoppable.

I think I know who it was you listened to. That professor guy? I saw him on Piers Morgan, but could barely stand watching him with his self-righteous grin and an utterly chilling attitude.

Of course it’s okay to have reservations.

What does it matter? If they manage to substantially weaken the regime, do you think those in Iran who want the regime gone will care what the exact goals of this war were?

You mean like the 2015 anti nuke deal that Trump tore up despite all the other party countries begging him not to ?

Or are you talking about the anti nuke talks of a few weeks ago, which were apparently going well. Then Trump and Netanyahu decided to do a Pearl Harbour on the Iranian leadership ?

Oh, and this is after the Maduro thing.

Absolutely there is a raving lunatic who is the common denominator. And his name is Trump.

And is the "regime" weakened substantially ?

I put "regime" in inverted commas, because what we are really talking about is the government. And governments do tend to be rather big. Especially in authoritarian states. And this is a theocratic state on top of that.

I have not seen anything mentioned on the news about what the new government will look like. I would have thought that would be important.

Dream on.

You’ve said before that you live somewhere where you don’t get access to all media sources. You must be seeing a propaganda heavy selection of media sources if you believe Iran are objectively “winning”.

They have alienated most of their neighbours for little gain. Shown the world how utterly mad the regime is. And will force further action to be taken against them re the Hormuz Straight.

I think play the ball here and not the player applies here.

I never said Iran are winning, I said they have the upper hand.

I made 3 points in my post :

1 - The US etc are getting low on anti missile interceptors. It is basically a numbers game, as likes of Sky UK news and CNN made clear from day one. I can link articles in defence of this point. And it's easy to figure out. Manufacturing output, defence spending and unit cost. All that against interceptions claimed. Easy sums.

2 - Iran has Gulf oil supplies by the balls. Well yes, they do.

3 - Trump is threatening to split the US from the rest of the world. Well yes. That is true.

You have not addressed any of those points. Instead you say I get propaganda.

And this, quote " They have alienated most of their neighbours for little gain. Shown the world how utterly mad the regime is. And will force further action to be taken against them re the Hormuz Straight."

And what action will this be ? More sanctions ? What is there left to sanction ? Will the gulf states destroy Iran's oil and gas industry without their own being destroyed too ? What action can they do that will not result in the entire gulf petro industry being offline for at least a year ? Or lets say 6 months even.

And it's not just petro that is at risk. There is also fertiliser and Helium to consider.

The guy on Times Radio flipped out about being called a regime. He was angry about it.

We unfortunately are not with Sweden, Canada and recently the EU and others in proscribing the IRGC so if it’s legitimate to us as a state then it’s a state that tortures and kills protestors and endorses gang rape for nurses who provide healthcare.

They can hold the world to ransom via the Strait and you can see many politicians not wanting the price hit. If what you’re suggesting does happen then no one wins. I’m not sure where you are geographically but nearly everyone will feel it if Iran is left alone to get the weapons they want.

Or maybe some do feel outside what would happen knowing many wouldn’t be. Either way, Iran coming through this is going to be concerning.

Can a regime be substantially weakened in three weeks?

I would say no.

I am in no way angry, upset or offended at the Iranian Government being called a regime. I use the word Government because it demonstrates the scale better.

"Regime" is rather suggestive of a small clique having a hold on a country. It's a propaganda tool really, used to potentially indicate it is a common enemy of both the populace of the nation and it's geopolitical foes. But I have seen no evidence of that, beyond that one poll, and that is flawed.

And yes, the IRGC is part of that Government. Or are they the regime. No idea, proscribe away.

Quote " .. .but nearly everyone will feel it if Iran is left alone to get the weapons they want."

Who is "nearly everyone" ? Not the people who were involved in the 2015 nuke deal surely ?

Is Trump this everyone ? How many times has he said the Iranian nuke stuff has been totally destroyed ? Tulsi Gabard said it too in a senate hearing a few days ago. She said destroyed, then the next day she said it had to be destroyed. Or was it other things she said had to be destroyed. What is it ? Destroyed or not destroyed ?

And wait, did Trump not say last week that Iran had surrendered ?

This is confusing, They surrendered, their government killed, nuke labs destroyed, air force, rader, navy, missiles... all destroyed according to Trump. Oh, and regime change is not the aim.

So why are they still being bombed ?