Can the ceasefire hold?

[Alantraitor]

Hamas has only returned 9 out of the 28 bodies it agreed to return as part of the ceasefire agreement. The Israel government has threatened to reduce the promised aid supplies to Gaza in retaliation. Hamas have announced that it can't find the bodies of any more Israelis hostages, which has made some people question the future of the ceasefire.

Israel’s defence minister threatened on Wednesday to resume fighting if Hamas does not honour the continuing terms of the deal. On a more optimistic note however, the BBC reports that in a call with reporters last night, senior US advisers were downplaying the risk. The advisers said there was "understanding" to get all the live hostages, which Hamas did "honour".

We have a "mechanism in place", and are working with mediators to get as many bodies "as possible" out, they explained and, "We continue to hear from them that they intend to honour the deal."

Hamas says that specialist equipment will be required to find and retrieve the bodies of the other hostages and they are working with other countries to achieve this. Turkey, for example is in talks to send experts on body retrieval.

The BBC states that According to those advisers, the US government does not so far believe Hamas has broken the agreement by not yet retrieving the remains of remaining deceased hostages.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/ckgzndpnjl1t

I don't think anyone is blaming the victims. There are definitely questions about the extent that the IDFa actions contributed to those deaths. That's a difference between getting caught up in gunfire and houses and cars which the IDF knew had hostages in being deliberately shelled.

Whether this happened and the extent is under debate and controversial. If it did happen under the Hannibal directive, then that needs to be known as they're can be discussion in Israeli society about whether that's acceptable. If it didn't happen, then these allegations need to be out to bed once and for all. It should be the subject of an independent investigation, so there can be an answer to these questions, but I very much doubt that'll happen.

Out of all the atrocities and barbarity that happened on that day posters go to this.

The sadness is too great for this point scoring.

I agree with this.

I know. I wish I could say its unbelievable.

That's fine then. It can be left that it's unclear how many were killed by the IDF if that's the preference. I'd have thought clarity was a preference though.

There are enough questionable activities by the IDF elsewhere that perhaps they can be investigated first.

Well it was your source.

But it's also irrelevant to the title of this thread and a load of negativity at a time when it's better for both sides to be looking forward.

I really hope you're right about this.

I think it's something which does eventually need investigating, but I agree that it's not really the topic of this thread, and perhaps better to be left unanswered for now, whilst the situation is so delicate.

The Al Asqa flood? Why do you call it that? Is it the same reason you call Israel The Zionist Entity?

Yes I spotted that too.
Really sinister.
As is the blaming of Israelis for any of the deaths on that day.

Honestly I think anyone referring to the 7 October as Al Aqsa flood is pretty shocking, even for mumsnet.

That poster a few days ago posted saying Israelis are baby killing monsters.
I don't know why I'm sometimes still surprised. Its so blatant. What have we come to?

It’s pretty shocking. And distressing to read some of the posts.

I think it is.

Also a supporter of Sinwar. Absolutely disgraceful.

I think is some cases though, they are actually radical Islamists.

I think you might be right about that.

Only a supporter of Hamas refers to it as the Al Aqsa flood. There is no grey area.

Gaza is experiencing a volatile power vacuum, and multiple armed factions and clans are now vying for control amid Hamas’s weakened grip. Following the recent ceasefire and the IDF withdrawal to pre-determined lines, Hamas has begun reasserting its authority. However it's facing fierce resistance from rival groups and powerful clans. Often these armed clans are enforcing their own rules. Many of these groups are established within tribal loyalties with extended family networks which can mobilise quickly. Clans are not just resisting Hamas. They are also fighting one another for power and territory. This could eventually lead to warlord style governance where neighbourhoods are ruled by which ever group dominaes locally.

@willowtree99 ’Im not an Islamist, radical or otherwise (or for that matter even muslim), but I do respect Hamas as a key pillar of the resistance’

You respect Hamas? You deserve to be banned.

But it's just fine to blame the victims of Israeli gunfire? Why were they walking there, they shouldn't have walked there if they didn't want to get shot. For all we know they wanted to find their dead childs remains under the rubble but it's fine that they were shot because why were they walking along unarmed!

The soldiers fired warning shots.
Would you approach soldiers who were shooting towards you?

Of course they shouldn't have walked towards the military who had withdrawn to a certain area. And of course they shouldn't have ignored the calls to stop walking towards the soldiers.

How were the soldiers to know whether these people were armed or not or what their intention was in coming towards them? All other civilians seemed to know not to walk into a military zone.

It's a completely different situation to October 23 - no one would have thought the victims could have been dangerous because they were just enjoying their day mostly at a music festival or in a kibbutz.