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Conflict in the Middle East

Why are Palestinians tortured in Israeli prisons?

223 replies

Leftisrightisleft · 15/10/2025 08:56

We have heard time and time again from detained Palestinians once they are freed, about the extensive torture and abuse they faced at the hands of Israeli prisons guards.

Is this legal in Israel? Is that why nothing is done about it?

Source:

https://news.sky.com/story/freed-palestinian-prisoner-alleges-torture-and-deaths-in-israeli-detention-13450233

Freed Palestinian prisoner alleges torture and deaths in Israeli detention

Akram al Basyouni, who spent nearly two years in custody, tells Sky News that prisoners were beaten "so savagely our ribs were shattered".

https://news.sky.com/story/freed-palestinian-prisoner-alleges-torture-and-deaths-in-israeli-detention-13450233

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
Gloriia · 15/10/2025 19:04

Everexpanding · 15/10/2025 18:53

Under the Geneva conventions, the set of international laws that police the conduct of warring parties, doctors should be protected, not targeted or attacked during conflict and must be allowed to carry on providing medical care to those who need it.
Tedros said: “Health workers, facilities they work in, and patients they care for … must never be targets. In fact, under international humanitarian law, they should be actively protected.”

Two of Gaza’s most senior doctors – Dr Iyad al-Rantisi, a consultant obstetrician and gynaecologist at Kamal Adwan hospital, and Dr Adnan al-Bursh, head of the orthopaedic department at al-Shifa hospital – are known to have died in detention.

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2025/feb/25/more-than-160-gazan-medics-held-in-israeli-prisons-amid-reports-of-torture

Thing is some of them do in fact have dual Dr/hamas roles. Not saying the ones you have mentioned have but certainly we know some do. Perhaps the Geneva convention should add you can't work as a doctor if you're part of a terrorist organisation?

Icreatedausernameyippee · 15/10/2025 19:06

This reply has been deleted

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Icreatedausernameyippee · 15/10/2025 19:07

Oh wait, they'd have to actually uphold the Geneva Conventions 😬

KoalaKoKo · 15/10/2025 19:54

Irenesortof · 15/10/2025 12:02

I have been wondering whether the 'deniers' on Mumsnet are not all or even mostly ordinary contributors who hold particular views, but are part of a publicity campaign on behalf of the Israeli state. The tone of many posts is so similar, expressing a kind of naive puzzlement about why Lush is bothering to protest by closing stores, or why pensioners are risking getting arrested, or why so many people are unable to understand that Palastine Action is an evil terrorist organisation. I'm not sure that ordinary people who are so ill-informed would bother posting...

I have brought up this before and the response is always a number of users jeering to shut down the conversation.

Obviously a lot of people are just ordinary people posting their thoughts but what you have noticed with the similar defense is not bots though - the Washington Post, Oxford University and lots of other great publications and universities have reported on this phenomenon.

Basically there are apps and websites that scan the internet for mentions of Israel and Gaza and then directs people to them to defend Israel. They can also put the comment they find offensive into the AI and get suggestions for responses to the arguments. They are ordinary people some are Israeli and some might be pro Israel groups like the Hasbara fellows from the US or Canada and some may even be from the UK. Basically anyone who wants to fight for Israel online can use these tools.

Most people who fight for Israel online are unpaid though they also have some people employed to do it, they also have a section of the IDF that concentrate on taking the fight online and have a dedicated section of the government for promoting Israel online. They have paid influencers millions as has been well covered by the media at this stage.

“Joan Donovan, a noted disinformation expert who is an assistant professor of journalism at Boston University, said the apps are a new development in the propaganda battle being waged on the internet over Israel’s offensive in Gaza and that social media companies need to find ways to monitor their use.

“Social media is a terrain of warfare, not just for cyber troops, but also for citizen battalions armed with AI-enhanced bots and the ability to generate endless unique posts that evade current content moderation tools,” she said. “It is incumbent on tech companies to defend against such abuses.”

“This level of organization only exists on one side of the conflict,” said Emerson T. Brooking, a former cyber policy adviser to the Defense Department who studies disinformation and propaganda campaigns as a resident senior fellow at the Atlantic Council’s Digital Forensic Research Lab. “It exists for pro-Israel voices, and it exists because there are government ministries in Israel that support these tools and encourage their use.””
——

“These tools upend authenticity and they make it harder for people to understand what’s happening on their feeds and recognize when content is real, recognize real interactions, and to feel that there is integrity on their feeds,” she said. “People who see [pro-Israel] content in their feeds and don’t understand that it originates from automated tools may feel like the language is indicative of a growing sentiment, and that can then shift their attitudes.”

Pro-Israel apps make online activism easier - The Washington Post

KoalaKoKo · 15/10/2025 20:01

Gloriia · 15/10/2025 19:04

Thing is some of them do in fact have dual Dr/hamas roles. Not saying the ones you have mentioned have but certainly we know some do. Perhaps the Geneva convention should add you can't work as a doctor if you're part of a terrorist organisation?

A) that is nonsense there is no evidence that any of the murdered or abducted doctors were members of Hamas. You can’t just call every murder victim Hamas with zero evidence - give us your sources. They were illegally held without charge and then murdered.

B) Even if they had been guilty of something, raping a prisoner with objects until he dies is pretty abhorrent and breaks all kinds of laws. Just FYI!

DrPrunesqualer · 15/10/2025 20:07

KoalaKoKo · 15/10/2025 19:54

I have brought up this before and the response is always a number of users jeering to shut down the conversation.

Obviously a lot of people are just ordinary people posting their thoughts but what you have noticed with the similar defense is not bots though - the Washington Post, Oxford University and lots of other great publications and universities have reported on this phenomenon.

Basically there are apps and websites that scan the internet for mentions of Israel and Gaza and then directs people to them to defend Israel. They can also put the comment they find offensive into the AI and get suggestions for responses to the arguments. They are ordinary people some are Israeli and some might be pro Israel groups like the Hasbara fellows from the US or Canada and some may even be from the UK. Basically anyone who wants to fight for Israel online can use these tools.

Most people who fight for Israel online are unpaid though they also have some people employed to do it, they also have a section of the IDF that concentrate on taking the fight online and have a dedicated section of the government for promoting Israel online. They have paid influencers millions as has been well covered by the media at this stage.

“Joan Donovan, a noted disinformation expert who is an assistant professor of journalism at Boston University, said the apps are a new development in the propaganda battle being waged on the internet over Israel’s offensive in Gaza and that social media companies need to find ways to monitor their use.

“Social media is a terrain of warfare, not just for cyber troops, but also for citizen battalions armed with AI-enhanced bots and the ability to generate endless unique posts that evade current content moderation tools,” she said. “It is incumbent on tech companies to defend against such abuses.”

“This level of organization only exists on one side of the conflict,” said Emerson T. Brooking, a former cyber policy adviser to the Defense Department who studies disinformation and propaganda campaigns as a resident senior fellow at the Atlantic Council’s Digital Forensic Research Lab. “It exists for pro-Israel voices, and it exists because there are government ministries in Israel that support these tools and encourage their use.””
——

“These tools upend authenticity and they make it harder for people to understand what’s happening on their feeds and recognize when content is real, recognize real interactions, and to feel that there is integrity on their feeds,” she said. “People who see [pro-Israel] content in their feeds and don’t understand that it originates from automated tools may feel like the language is indicative of a growing sentiment, and that can then shift their attitudes.”

Pro-Israel apps make online activism easier - The Washington Post

Edited

Blimey

that’s scarey !

DrPrunesqualer · 15/10/2025 20:08

KoalaKoKo · 15/10/2025 20:01

A) that is nonsense there is no evidence that any of the murdered or abducted doctors were members of Hamas. You can’t just call every murder victim Hamas with zero evidence - give us your sources. They were illegally held without charge and then murdered.

B) Even if they had been guilty of something, raping a prisoner with objects until he dies is pretty abhorrent and breaks all kinds of laws. Just FYI!

Edited

Agree
but
Evidence rarely comes
I’m still waiting !

DrPrunesqualer · 15/10/2025 20:15

Gloriia · 15/10/2025 19:04

Thing is some of them do in fact have dual Dr/hamas roles. Not saying the ones you have mentioned have but certainly we know some do. Perhaps the Geneva convention should add you can't work as a doctor if you're part of a terrorist organisation?

Which ones
You said some of them
so more than one

which ones
Sources and evidence and no
not X or YouTube

Im asking mainly because Gloria you keep speaking with this so called air of authority and never provide evidence
We asked earlier today for some and you’ve ignored that request from two mumsnetters

It dangerous spreading lies and proporganda and i am not saying you are just that it’s dangerous.

So prove it with evidence from verifiable sources.
Plus the other evidence aswell because that was a truly shocking attack on released detainees.

Gloriia · 15/10/2025 20:17

KoalaKoKo · 15/10/2025 19:54

I have brought up this before and the response is always a number of users jeering to shut down the conversation.

Obviously a lot of people are just ordinary people posting their thoughts but what you have noticed with the similar defense is not bots though - the Washington Post, Oxford University and lots of other great publications and universities have reported on this phenomenon.

Basically there are apps and websites that scan the internet for mentions of Israel and Gaza and then directs people to them to defend Israel. They can also put the comment they find offensive into the AI and get suggestions for responses to the arguments. They are ordinary people some are Israeli and some might be pro Israel groups like the Hasbara fellows from the US or Canada and some may even be from the UK. Basically anyone who wants to fight for Israel online can use these tools.

Most people who fight for Israel online are unpaid though they also have some people employed to do it, they also have a section of the IDF that concentrate on taking the fight online and have a dedicated section of the government for promoting Israel online. They have paid influencers millions as has been well covered by the media at this stage.

“Joan Donovan, a noted disinformation expert who is an assistant professor of journalism at Boston University, said the apps are a new development in the propaganda battle being waged on the internet over Israel’s offensive in Gaza and that social media companies need to find ways to monitor their use.

“Social media is a terrain of warfare, not just for cyber troops, but also for citizen battalions armed with AI-enhanced bots and the ability to generate endless unique posts that evade current content moderation tools,” she said. “It is incumbent on tech companies to defend against such abuses.”

“This level of organization only exists on one side of the conflict,” said Emerson T. Brooking, a former cyber policy adviser to the Defense Department who studies disinformation and propaganda campaigns as a resident senior fellow at the Atlantic Council’s Digital Forensic Research Lab. “It exists for pro-Israel voices, and it exists because there are government ministries in Israel that support these tools and encourage their use.””
——

“These tools upend authenticity and they make it harder for people to understand what’s happening on their feeds and recognize when content is real, recognize real interactions, and to feel that there is integrity on their feeds,” she said. “People who see [pro-Israel] content in their feeds and don’t understand that it originates from automated tools may feel like the language is indicative of a growing sentiment, and that can then shift their attitudes.”

Pro-Israel apps make online activism easier - The Washington Post

Edited

It's all a bit tin hat territory isn't it.

Another way of putting it is many have lived and worked in the ME, most of us are very familiar with the history and all of us know the atrocities on Oct 7th were not justified because of decades long land disputes.

Look at the horrors going on now in gaza, they are killing each other now the IDF have pulled back.

The people who attend pro pal marches their faces contorted with hate for others tells us all we need ro know about who is in the wrong here. No apps or 'cyber troops' needed.

Irenesortof · 15/10/2025 20:19

KoalaKoKo · 15/10/2025 19:54

I have brought up this before and the response is always a number of users jeering to shut down the conversation.

Obviously a lot of people are just ordinary people posting their thoughts but what you have noticed with the similar defense is not bots though - the Washington Post, Oxford University and lots of other great publications and universities have reported on this phenomenon.

Basically there are apps and websites that scan the internet for mentions of Israel and Gaza and then directs people to them to defend Israel. They can also put the comment they find offensive into the AI and get suggestions for responses to the arguments. They are ordinary people some are Israeli and some might be pro Israel groups like the Hasbara fellows from the US or Canada and some may even be from the UK. Basically anyone who wants to fight for Israel online can use these tools.

Most people who fight for Israel online are unpaid though they also have some people employed to do it, they also have a section of the IDF that concentrate on taking the fight online and have a dedicated section of the government for promoting Israel online. They have paid influencers millions as has been well covered by the media at this stage.

“Joan Donovan, a noted disinformation expert who is an assistant professor of journalism at Boston University, said the apps are a new development in the propaganda battle being waged on the internet over Israel’s offensive in Gaza and that social media companies need to find ways to monitor their use.

“Social media is a terrain of warfare, not just for cyber troops, but also for citizen battalions armed with AI-enhanced bots and the ability to generate endless unique posts that evade current content moderation tools,” she said. “It is incumbent on tech companies to defend against such abuses.”

“This level of organization only exists on one side of the conflict,” said Emerson T. Brooking, a former cyber policy adviser to the Defense Department who studies disinformation and propaganda campaigns as a resident senior fellow at the Atlantic Council’s Digital Forensic Research Lab. “It exists for pro-Israel voices, and it exists because there are government ministries in Israel that support these tools and encourage their use.””
——

“These tools upend authenticity and they make it harder for people to understand what’s happening on their feeds and recognize when content is real, recognize real interactions, and to feel that there is integrity on their feeds,” she said. “People who see [pro-Israel] content in their feeds and don’t understand that it originates from automated tools may feel like the language is indicative of a growing sentiment, and that can then shift their attitudes.”

Pro-Israel apps make online activism easier - The Washington Post

Edited

Thank you. That is interesting though deeply depressing, and fits with what I’ve been noticing. I guess that the jeering response you’ve had to mentioning this is part of the strategy.

TicklishMauveSquid · 15/10/2025 20:21

Everexpanding · 15/10/2025 18:06

@TicklishMauveSquid if you are using X as your source of information your abhorrent attitudes make sense, maybe try reading some actual reports from reputable sources

Are the pictures in that link fake?

Colonel Safiya’s post about Oct 7th is fake?

Problem with this particular conflict is that MSM, strangely enough, seems not to report on a lot of stuff which doesn’t fit the narrative that gets most clicks and performative outrage.

X is a wealth of information regarding the missed out bits like this⬆️

Irenesortof · 15/10/2025 20:35

Gloriia · 15/10/2025 20:17

It's all a bit tin hat territory isn't it.

Another way of putting it is many have lived and worked in the ME, most of us are very familiar with the history and all of us know the atrocities on Oct 7th were not justified because of decades long land disputes.

Look at the horrors going on now in gaza, they are killing each other now the IDF have pulled back.

The people who attend pro pal marches their faces contorted with hate for others tells us all we need ro know about who is in the wrong here. No apps or 'cyber troops' needed.

This is such nonsense but a fine example of the AI supported propaganda that @KoalaKoKo wad speaking about. I’ve been on many pro Palestinian rallies and faces are only contorted with concern and grief.

TicklishMauveSquid · 15/10/2025 20:50

KoalaKoKo · 15/10/2025 19:54

I have brought up this before and the response is always a number of users jeering to shut down the conversation.

Obviously a lot of people are just ordinary people posting their thoughts but what you have noticed with the similar defense is not bots though - the Washington Post, Oxford University and lots of other great publications and universities have reported on this phenomenon.

Basically there are apps and websites that scan the internet for mentions of Israel and Gaza and then directs people to them to defend Israel. They can also put the comment they find offensive into the AI and get suggestions for responses to the arguments. They are ordinary people some are Israeli and some might be pro Israel groups like the Hasbara fellows from the US or Canada and some may even be from the UK. Basically anyone who wants to fight for Israel online can use these tools.

Most people who fight for Israel online are unpaid though they also have some people employed to do it, they also have a section of the IDF that concentrate on taking the fight online and have a dedicated section of the government for promoting Israel online. They have paid influencers millions as has been well covered by the media at this stage.

“Joan Donovan, a noted disinformation expert who is an assistant professor of journalism at Boston University, said the apps are a new development in the propaganda battle being waged on the internet over Israel’s offensive in Gaza and that social media companies need to find ways to monitor their use.

“Social media is a terrain of warfare, not just for cyber troops, but also for citizen battalions armed with AI-enhanced bots and the ability to generate endless unique posts that evade current content moderation tools,” she said. “It is incumbent on tech companies to defend against such abuses.”

“This level of organization only exists on one side of the conflict,” said Emerson T. Brooking, a former cyber policy adviser to the Defense Department who studies disinformation and propaganda campaigns as a resident senior fellow at the Atlantic Council’s Digital Forensic Research Lab. “It exists for pro-Israel voices, and it exists because there are government ministries in Israel that support these tools and encourage their use.””
——

“These tools upend authenticity and they make it harder for people to understand what’s happening on their feeds and recognize when content is real, recognize real interactions, and to feel that there is integrity on their feeds,” she said. “People who see [pro-Israel] content in their feeds and don’t understand that it originates from automated tools may feel like the language is indicative of a growing sentiment, and that can then shift their attitudes.”

Pro-Israel apps make online activism easier - The Washington Post

Edited

Sorry to disappoint my dear, I’ve dipped in and out of MN since 2009, long before this board was created.

I was actually quite disgusted MN let it continue on a PARENTING SITE after the massive amount of blatant (but too cowardly to say it) pro-Hamas supporters on here, especially in the weeks directly after Oct 7th.

It is interesting that your report there reckons only the Israeli side is organised enough to create what has basically been a complete failure of a pro-Israel PR campaign because Israel is a pariah on the world stage right, and certainly has completely lost the propaganda war.

Leaving aside Russia, China, Iran and Qatar certainly having the funding and resources to organise a global anti-Israel propaganda campaign, Israel losing the propaganda war means that Hamas, having nowhere near resources, tech and level of organisation Israel has, really didn’t have to try that hard to fool the world does it?

What does that say?

Dagda · 15/10/2025 21:25

KoalaKoKo · 15/10/2025 19:54

I have brought up this before and the response is always a number of users jeering to shut down the conversation.

Obviously a lot of people are just ordinary people posting their thoughts but what you have noticed with the similar defense is not bots though - the Washington Post, Oxford University and lots of other great publications and universities have reported on this phenomenon.

Basically there are apps and websites that scan the internet for mentions of Israel and Gaza and then directs people to them to defend Israel. They can also put the comment they find offensive into the AI and get suggestions for responses to the arguments. They are ordinary people some are Israeli and some might be pro Israel groups like the Hasbara fellows from the US or Canada and some may even be from the UK. Basically anyone who wants to fight for Israel online can use these tools.

Most people who fight for Israel online are unpaid though they also have some people employed to do it, they also have a section of the IDF that concentrate on taking the fight online and have a dedicated section of the government for promoting Israel online. They have paid influencers millions as has been well covered by the media at this stage.

“Joan Donovan, a noted disinformation expert who is an assistant professor of journalism at Boston University, said the apps are a new development in the propaganda battle being waged on the internet over Israel’s offensive in Gaza and that social media companies need to find ways to monitor their use.

“Social media is a terrain of warfare, not just for cyber troops, but also for citizen battalions armed with AI-enhanced bots and the ability to generate endless unique posts that evade current content moderation tools,” she said. “It is incumbent on tech companies to defend against such abuses.”

“This level of organization only exists on one side of the conflict,” said Emerson T. Brooking, a former cyber policy adviser to the Defense Department who studies disinformation and propaganda campaigns as a resident senior fellow at the Atlantic Council’s Digital Forensic Research Lab. “It exists for pro-Israel voices, and it exists because there are government ministries in Israel that support these tools and encourage their use.””
——

“These tools upend authenticity and they make it harder for people to understand what’s happening on their feeds and recognize when content is real, recognize real interactions, and to feel that there is integrity on their feeds,” she said. “People who see [pro-Israel] content in their feeds and don’t understand that it originates from automated tools may feel like the language is indicative of a growing sentiment, and that can then shift their attitudes.”

Pro-Israel apps make online activism easier - The Washington Post

Edited

Thanks for that scary stuff.

I do think most pro Israeli posters on here are genuine individual posters who have just been radicalised basically.

EasyTouch · 15/10/2025 21:40

Leftisrightisleft · 15/10/2025 13:08

I have been reading about how Palestinians have been routinely tortured in Israeli prisons and I can't get my head around how this is allowed? It's not even a secret, it's very well known.

As a supposed democracy why are western allies not holding Israel to account?

You will be hard pushed to name a country, including Western which has not had prisoners/ detainees tortured up to now.
It is not a practice unique to Israel.

And the accountability is far below premium all over, too.

In the UK alone, we have too many people who rate dogs over children.

Everexpanding · 15/10/2025 21:46

KoalaKoKo · 15/10/2025 19:54

I have brought up this before and the response is always a number of users jeering to shut down the conversation.

Obviously a lot of people are just ordinary people posting their thoughts but what you have noticed with the similar defense is not bots though - the Washington Post, Oxford University and lots of other great publications and universities have reported on this phenomenon.

Basically there are apps and websites that scan the internet for mentions of Israel and Gaza and then directs people to them to defend Israel. They can also put the comment they find offensive into the AI and get suggestions for responses to the arguments. They are ordinary people some are Israeli and some might be pro Israel groups like the Hasbara fellows from the US or Canada and some may even be from the UK. Basically anyone who wants to fight for Israel online can use these tools.

Most people who fight for Israel online are unpaid though they also have some people employed to do it, they also have a section of the IDF that concentrate on taking the fight online and have a dedicated section of the government for promoting Israel online. They have paid influencers millions as has been well covered by the media at this stage.

“Joan Donovan, a noted disinformation expert who is an assistant professor of journalism at Boston University, said the apps are a new development in the propaganda battle being waged on the internet over Israel’s offensive in Gaza and that social media companies need to find ways to monitor their use.

“Social media is a terrain of warfare, not just for cyber troops, but also for citizen battalions armed with AI-enhanced bots and the ability to generate endless unique posts that evade current content moderation tools,” she said. “It is incumbent on tech companies to defend against such abuses.”

“This level of organization only exists on one side of the conflict,” said Emerson T. Brooking, a former cyber policy adviser to the Defense Department who studies disinformation and propaganda campaigns as a resident senior fellow at the Atlantic Council’s Digital Forensic Research Lab. “It exists for pro-Israel voices, and it exists because there are government ministries in Israel that support these tools and encourage their use.””
——

“These tools upend authenticity and they make it harder for people to understand what’s happening on their feeds and recognize when content is real, recognize real interactions, and to feel that there is integrity on their feeds,” she said. “People who see [pro-Israel] content in their feeds and don’t understand that it originates from automated tools may feel like the language is indicative of a growing sentiment, and that can then shift their attitudes.”

Pro-Israel apps make online activism easier - The Washington Post

Edited

Thanks @KoalaKoKo I didn’t know about the app, very disturbing. there is a huge amount of very targeted disinformation being spread, all singing from the same hymn sheet trying to somehow justify what we have witnessed.
Torture is never justifiable

TicklishMauveSquid · 15/10/2025 21:55

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PotatoesandOatsforlife · 15/10/2025 21:55

Ihatetomatoes · 15/10/2025 11:08

They shouldn't be. No prisoner in any prison should be tortured. I agree and condemn it.

Will people also condemn the latest actions of Hamas as they kill their fellow Palestinians?

Both are wrong

Yes, I condemn both those things.
However, the difference is that Israel claims to be a modern democracy. It's supported by pretty much every Western government. Hamas is recognised to be a terrorist organisation. So, frankly Israel should be held to a higher standard. Also, Israel's human rights violations are heavily fuelled by anti-Arab racism, which is very ugly.

TicklishMauveSquid · 15/10/2025 21:58

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Dagda · 15/10/2025 22:08

EasyTouch · 15/10/2025 21:40

You will be hard pushed to name a country, including Western which has not had prisoners/ detainees tortured up to now.
It is not a practice unique to Israel.

And the accountability is far below premium all over, too.

In the UK alone, we have too many people who rate dogs over children.

Oh everybody does it.

I see.

EasyTouch · 15/10/2025 22:42

Dagda · 15/10/2025 21:25

Thanks for that scary stuff.

I do think most pro Israeli posters on here are genuine individual posters who have just been radicalised basically.

I've been a Zionist most of my life, as a non Jew.
And no set of people look to the internet for teaching about Israel/ Palestine more than the so called Pro Palestinians.

The shallow knowledge, the lack of breadth of knowledge of geopolitics, the emotionalism, the appropriation of terminology pertinent to other groups' suffering, the circular thinking and now using the terminology " radicalised" which is usually pertaining to Islamism for people who believe in Israel's right to both exist and defend herself .
But I expect that there will be a denial of anti Semitism ( what the fuck is wrong with being for Israel? ) and no mass fleeing from the West of White anti Zionists whose privilege in relation to the rest of the world came about on the backs of free labour in the cotton, cane and corn plantations all over the Americas and which funded the Industrial Revolution. And for which the slaves not their descendants received NO reparations and which the UK finished paying reparations to the descendants of Slaves owners only within the last few years.

Which means that I, a Black Brit descendant of British slavery helped to fund reparations to some no account descedants of slave owners, whilst none of my slave ancestors or their descendants, including myself or my daughter received anything.

There is nothing unique about the Israel/ Palestinian mix up, aside from the fact that the one side with indigenous roots and consecutive history of expulsion, thus forming a diaspora, facing hatred, conspiracy,pogroms, expulsion, over taxing, ghettoisation ( the Italian word "ghetto" pertains to the scarce areas allocated where Jews were allowed to live and trade in the few trades that they were allowed to work in , in Italy starting with Venice) is both resented for existing outside of Israel and resented for having a Nation of refuge and flourish outside of a diaspora where anti Semitism is always under the surface ( as the " we are better at non racism than our Continental brethren" UK and " we cannot be racist; we never colonised anybody" Ireland have proven).

Another thing; when they go for the Jews, they always come for us Black people.
I make no apology for regarding Israel / Jew hate as my Canary In The Coalmine.

Regardless of anti Zionist Jews, anti Semitic Black people, Black Muslims who put Muslim before Black, Liberal / Leftist Whites who force team Muslims with race and Muslims who do the same whilst not acknowledging the anti Blackness of too much of the non Black Muslim world that would make a White Reformer blush if they were made privy to any behind closed doors chat.

I suspect that I am both older and far more worldly than you.
In a world where the pre war Jewish population still has not been made up , due to a real, bonafide Industrial, individually targeted genocide, where six million were murdered for being Jewish, not for living in a war zone and in still living memory, with the checks and balances of Nazi efficient evidence harbouring and having the strength to fight for a return to their roots , because the war eventually taught so many of them to believe fuck shit is fuck shit at first glance and not an apparition; yeah, I'm pro Israel.

I doubt that your concern for Palestinians liberation has lead to a soul search about the various nations and groups that have governed over the territories in the last, say one hundred and odd years ( just outside living memory, but plenty of secondary sources and of course, plenty of written primary sources) and who were regarded as Palestinians, the internal tensions that precipitated modern Zionism, the pogroms in Palestine via the Ottomans and the fact that the Holocaust was the cherry on the cake of the catalyst for a formation of modern Israel and not the cake itself.

Add to the fact that much of the land used then to form Israel was SOLD to Israelis by those who previously lived there. Whose descendants got Sellers' remorse.

I recognise these tropes as they have been used against Black people of Transatlantic slavery heritage , too and with too much success, unfortunately.

I wish that there was a Black nation willing to go to bat for its people like Israel does for hers.

Dagda · 16/10/2025 06:44

@EasyTouch now using the terminology " radicalised" which is usually pertaining to Islamism for people who believe in Israel’s right to both exist and defend herself

I also think Israel has a right to both exist and defend itself. In fact an awful lot of people think this. At the start of the war the Uk, the US and the EU all made statements to that effect. Now what is being said has changed because of the extent of what the israeli administration have done. A radical view is defending the extent of the destruction, the indiscriminate deaths of civilians and the restrictions on aid which punished again a civilian population made up of 50% of children. “this is what happens in war” “everyone tortures prisoners” “they do it in Yemen”

It’s radical because it completely disregards international law and it tries to normalise collective punishment. This type of view threatens all of us.

HellsBalls · 16/10/2025 07:08

Dagda · 15/10/2025 21:25

Thanks for that scary stuff.

I do think most pro Israeli posters on here are genuine individual posters who have just been radicalised basically.

Fucking hell.
Take a look in the mirror.

Everexpanding · 16/10/2025 09:12

EasyTouch · 15/10/2025 22:42

I've been a Zionist most of my life, as a non Jew.
And no set of people look to the internet for teaching about Israel/ Palestine more than the so called Pro Palestinians.

The shallow knowledge, the lack of breadth of knowledge of geopolitics, the emotionalism, the appropriation of terminology pertinent to other groups' suffering, the circular thinking and now using the terminology " radicalised" which is usually pertaining to Islamism for people who believe in Israel's right to both exist and defend herself .
But I expect that there will be a denial of anti Semitism ( what the fuck is wrong with being for Israel? ) and no mass fleeing from the West of White anti Zionists whose privilege in relation to the rest of the world came about on the backs of free labour in the cotton, cane and corn plantations all over the Americas and which funded the Industrial Revolution. And for which the slaves not their descendants received NO reparations and which the UK finished paying reparations to the descendants of Slaves owners only within the last few years.

Which means that I, a Black Brit descendant of British slavery helped to fund reparations to some no account descedants of slave owners, whilst none of my slave ancestors or their descendants, including myself or my daughter received anything.

There is nothing unique about the Israel/ Palestinian mix up, aside from the fact that the one side with indigenous roots and consecutive history of expulsion, thus forming a diaspora, facing hatred, conspiracy,pogroms, expulsion, over taxing, ghettoisation ( the Italian word "ghetto" pertains to the scarce areas allocated where Jews were allowed to live and trade in the few trades that they were allowed to work in , in Italy starting with Venice) is both resented for existing outside of Israel and resented for having a Nation of refuge and flourish outside of a diaspora where anti Semitism is always under the surface ( as the " we are better at non racism than our Continental brethren" UK and " we cannot be racist; we never colonised anybody" Ireland have proven).

Another thing; when they go for the Jews, they always come for us Black people.
I make no apology for regarding Israel / Jew hate as my Canary In The Coalmine.

Regardless of anti Zionist Jews, anti Semitic Black people, Black Muslims who put Muslim before Black, Liberal / Leftist Whites who force team Muslims with race and Muslims who do the same whilst not acknowledging the anti Blackness of too much of the non Black Muslim world that would make a White Reformer blush if they were made privy to any behind closed doors chat.

I suspect that I am both older and far more worldly than you.
In a world where the pre war Jewish population still has not been made up , due to a real, bonafide Industrial, individually targeted genocide, where six million were murdered for being Jewish, not for living in a war zone and in still living memory, with the checks and balances of Nazi efficient evidence harbouring and having the strength to fight for a return to their roots , because the war eventually taught so many of them to believe fuck shit is fuck shit at first glance and not an apparition; yeah, I'm pro Israel.

I doubt that your concern for Palestinians liberation has lead to a soul search about the various nations and groups that have governed over the territories in the last, say one hundred and odd years ( just outside living memory, but plenty of secondary sources and of course, plenty of written primary sources) and who were regarded as Palestinians, the internal tensions that precipitated modern Zionism, the pogroms in Palestine via the Ottomans and the fact that the Holocaust was the cherry on the cake of the catalyst for a formation of modern Israel and not the cake itself.

Add to the fact that much of the land used then to form Israel was SOLD to Israelis by those who previously lived there. Whose descendants got Sellers' remorse.

I recognise these tropes as they have been used against Black people of Transatlantic slavery heritage , too and with too much success, unfortunately.

I wish that there was a Black nation willing to go to bat for its people like Israel does for hers.

Hi @EasyTouch perhaps you could answer a question for me while you are here again, you never replied last time

do you see evidence of racism in the Israeli state’s treatment of Palestinians?

Ihatetomatoes · 16/10/2025 09:24

EasyTouch · 15/10/2025 22:42

I've been a Zionist most of my life, as a non Jew.
And no set of people look to the internet for teaching about Israel/ Palestine more than the so called Pro Palestinians.

The shallow knowledge, the lack of breadth of knowledge of geopolitics, the emotionalism, the appropriation of terminology pertinent to other groups' suffering, the circular thinking and now using the terminology " radicalised" which is usually pertaining to Islamism for people who believe in Israel's right to both exist and defend herself .
But I expect that there will be a denial of anti Semitism ( what the fuck is wrong with being for Israel? ) and no mass fleeing from the West of White anti Zionists whose privilege in relation to the rest of the world came about on the backs of free labour in the cotton, cane and corn plantations all over the Americas and which funded the Industrial Revolution. And for which the slaves not their descendants received NO reparations and which the UK finished paying reparations to the descendants of Slaves owners only within the last few years.

Which means that I, a Black Brit descendant of British slavery helped to fund reparations to some no account descedants of slave owners, whilst none of my slave ancestors or their descendants, including myself or my daughter received anything.

There is nothing unique about the Israel/ Palestinian mix up, aside from the fact that the one side with indigenous roots and consecutive history of expulsion, thus forming a diaspora, facing hatred, conspiracy,pogroms, expulsion, over taxing, ghettoisation ( the Italian word "ghetto" pertains to the scarce areas allocated where Jews were allowed to live and trade in the few trades that they were allowed to work in , in Italy starting with Venice) is both resented for existing outside of Israel and resented for having a Nation of refuge and flourish outside of a diaspora where anti Semitism is always under the surface ( as the " we are better at non racism than our Continental brethren" UK and " we cannot be racist; we never colonised anybody" Ireland have proven).

Another thing; when they go for the Jews, they always come for us Black people.
I make no apology for regarding Israel / Jew hate as my Canary In The Coalmine.

Regardless of anti Zionist Jews, anti Semitic Black people, Black Muslims who put Muslim before Black, Liberal / Leftist Whites who force team Muslims with race and Muslims who do the same whilst not acknowledging the anti Blackness of too much of the non Black Muslim world that would make a White Reformer blush if they were made privy to any behind closed doors chat.

I suspect that I am both older and far more worldly than you.
In a world where the pre war Jewish population still has not been made up , due to a real, bonafide Industrial, individually targeted genocide, where six million were murdered for being Jewish, not for living in a war zone and in still living memory, with the checks and balances of Nazi efficient evidence harbouring and having the strength to fight for a return to their roots , because the war eventually taught so many of them to believe fuck shit is fuck shit at first glance and not an apparition; yeah, I'm pro Israel.

I doubt that your concern for Palestinians liberation has lead to a soul search about the various nations and groups that have governed over the territories in the last, say one hundred and odd years ( just outside living memory, but plenty of secondary sources and of course, plenty of written primary sources) and who were regarded as Palestinians, the internal tensions that precipitated modern Zionism, the pogroms in Palestine via the Ottomans and the fact that the Holocaust was the cherry on the cake of the catalyst for a formation of modern Israel and not the cake itself.

Add to the fact that much of the land used then to form Israel was SOLD to Israelis by those who previously lived there. Whose descendants got Sellers' remorse.

I recognise these tropes as they have been used against Black people of Transatlantic slavery heritage , too and with too much success, unfortunately.

I wish that there was a Black nation willing to go to bat for its people like Israel does for hers.

I wish EVERYONE would read and try to understand this. Its a long paragraph though and soundbites are easier for many.