Hundreds of thousands of people in Israel are now protesting the government’s plans to push forward in Gaza and demanding a deal to release the hostages

[ThatCyanSheep]

They’re demanding that the government agrees a deal to release the hostages and stop pushing the military effort forward.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-gaza-war-protests-tel-aviv-b2809283.html

It might not. MN leave a lot of things standing that many would consider racist, sadly.

It strikes me that the “underdog” isn’t the state that’s killed over 18,000 children and is actively starving 2 million people.

While some Middle Eastern states have historically expressed hostility toward Israel, there’s no credible evidence that any are secretly planning its destruction today.
The situation is far more complex than a simple ‘wipe out’ narrative.

Thanks for the clarification on your own views.

You may not believe it was an inside job but that very much seemed to be the way the conversation was headed yesterday with some people appearing to blame Israel for 7/10.

I do not dispute that there were obviously failures of intelligence. The Israeli military intelligence chief resigned over them.

To try to victim blame Israel for the massacre though, that I do not accept. The blame for 7/10 lies squarely with Hamas as they planned and executed it.

The Israeli military intelligence chief already took responsibility for the failures of the intelligence directorate which allowed Hamas to "achieve" more killings and violence against Israeli civilians than even they probably hoped to do. That doesn't make the massacre Israel's fault.

@AWitchCalledMeg
Phrases that make your post racist (not ‘racist’)

• colonised by Islam
• ethnically cleansed
• engulfed by the third world… at a terrifying rate
• barbaric culture

Please take some time to reflect on the definition of extremism - “the promotion or advancement of an ideology based on violence, hatred or intolerance”.

It has been deleted now.

Well it's hardly secret - Iran's Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei has repeatedly referred to Israel as a "cancerous tumor" that must be "removed" and funds Hezbollah and Hamas, just as Syria does. Hezbollah, which explicitly calls for Israel's destruction, is a powerful political and military force in Lebanon. As for Qatar...

Re the deleted post, I was answering the question as to what relevance it had to this thread. As I said, it has to do with who you see as the underdog when looking at Israel.

If we’re pulling out quotes, here are some quotes:

1. Bezalel Smotrich (Finance Minister): In April 2024, Smotrich stated, “There are no half measures… Rafah, Deir al-Balah, Nuseirat – total annihilation. ‘Thou shalt blot out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven.’ There is no place for them under heaven.” The Israeli newspaper Haaretz described his comments as a call to genocide.
2. Nissim Vaturi (Deputy Speaker of the Knesset): In January 2024, Vaturi reaffirmed his calls to “wipe Gaza off the face of the earth,” stating, “Gaza must be burned.” He added, “I stand behind my words.”
3. Statements by Israeli Officials, Soldiers, and Civil Society: A report by Al-Haq in January 2024 documented various statements by Israeli officials and soldiers that have been interpreted as incitement to genocide.
4. Yitzhak Kroizer (Otzma Yehudit Party): In a radio interview, Kroizer stated, “The Gaza Strip should be flattened, and for all of them there is but one sentence, and that is death.”
5. Tally Gotliv (Likud Party): Gotliv demanded that Prime Minister Netanyahu use a nuclear bomb on Gaza for “strategic deterrence,” saying, “Before we consider inserting ground troops, doomsday weapon.”
6. Boaz Bismuth (Likud Party): Bismuth evoked the biblical massacre of the Amalek nation, stating, “It is forbidden to take mercy on the cruel, there’s no place for any humanitarian gestures,” referring to Gaza and adding, “The memory of Amalek must be erased.”
7. Zvi Yehezkeli (Journalist): Yehezkeli suggested on Channel 13 that Israel should have killed “many times 20,000 people,” stating, “[We] should have begun with a blow of 100,000.”
8. Yoav Gallant (Former Defence Minister): Gallant, in October 2023, stated, “Gaza won’t return to what it was before. We will eliminate everything.”
9. Amit Halevi (Likud Party): Halevi, in October 2023, suggested that Gaza should be left as a monument, like Sodom, and questioned the desire to treat every child and woman in Gaza, implying that distinctions between civilians and combatants should not exist.
10. Simcha Rothman (National Religious Party): Rothman, in response to a question about whether children are enemies, stated, “They [the children] are our enemies.”

Yeah, I don't think the underdog is the country that has killed thousands of children and is funded by the billions by the US and other countries. I still don't see what relevance that post had to do with Israelis protesting in Israel against actions taken by the Israeli government. I also don't see you calling that post out either.

I didn't say and didnt imply that Israel set it up.

I set out some things about what took place on October 7 that have all been evidenced as true.

Instead you looked at the established evidence that I presented and said that I was implying an inside job. Thats your conclusion not mine.

I think its obvious that Israel didn't set it up.
But instaad have created conditions for Hamas to flourish, funded them and used Hamas as an excuse to do to destroy Gaza and i think their ultimate aim is to have no existance of Palestine within the occupied Palestinian territories and a mass expulsion of Palestinians from the land. This is being played out right now actively. I would love to proved wrong.

I have heard reports of armed gangs funded by Israel- especially in the South. Apparently they are often on drugs too. I’d have to look into it more to see if this has been verified by humanitarian groups etc. but I’ve heard this from first hand sources.

I wonder if these are the same people who say 9/11 was an Israeli plot.

I tend to believe (especially in the UK) that more plots are thwarted than succeed but we will of course question the intelligence failures on the ones that do.
Israel is usually damned whatever they do it seems. I was not surprised to hear that an Iranian official had a Hezbollah pager - I was disappointed to see people in the UK supporting the Iranian regime.

Apparently the Al Jazeera English language news versions are a wee bit sanitised. So if you can still see bias.....

Martyred?

No, because it did rather sound as though she felt all Muslims should be disposed of quietly! But I think/hope she was referring to the threat of radical Islam, which is a different story altogether, and as she said Israel seems to be facing it alone while the UK marches chanting "From the river to the sea" and getting arrested in support of a proscribed terrorist group whose co-founder spoke in praise of Hamas on 8 October 2023.

What are you actually insinuating?

I didn't say and didnt imply that Israel set it up.

Hmm, I wonder what "beyond incompetence" means?

Indeed - is this somebody, too afraid to lose their posting rights, to say what they really believe?

Did I just read that if Bibi had been concerned about the hostages, they would have been rescued by lunchtime? WTAF!

No, Netanyahu may have helped facilitate funds to be brought into Hamas. Not for the reasons you and many others assume. The man has had a tremendous job in balancing the self determination of his own people, a constant aggressive barrage of hostility from Israel's enemy and ensuring civilian Palestinians' lives were given a fighting chance. Part of those funds was supposed to be for humanitarian reasons- well we all know how that turned out. He wasn't in bed with Hamas, he was doing his best to keep them at bay AND pave the way for some kind of peace.

I think they were referring to the "all for all" swap offered October 2023 that would have exchanged all the hostages for all those detained by Israel.
Not exactly a rescue, but a release and certainly not lunchtime, but a week or so after.

"Defense Minister Yoav Gallant on Sunday told family members of the hundreds of hostages being held by terrorists in the Gaza Strip that military pressure on Hamas is more likely to win their loved ones’ release than a sweeping prisoner exchange.
Gallant dismissed a Hamas offer to free all captives it holds in exchange for Palestinian prisoners in Israeli jails as “psychological games” by the terror group, pushing back against calls by some families to take the ostensible deal.
“If there is no military pressure on Hamas, nothing will progress,” Gallant told relatives of some of the nearly 240 hostages known held by Hamas and other terror groups in the Gaza Strip, according to a statement from the Defense Ministry."

TOI Oct 30 2023

Beyond incompetence -The ex Chief of Military intelligence said Hamas-led attack did not occur because of intelligence failures or a poor response time the night of the attack, but was the result of “something much deeper, spanning many years, that requires a much deeper correction'

https://www.timesofisrael.com/former-idf-intel-chief-oct-7-was-much-deeper-than-an-intelligence-failure/

The previous head of Israeli's mil intelligence is saying something very similar. Institutional failures at all levels.
To be clear im not implying set up, any collaboration or any huge conspiracy theory. They were not prepared to respond to a such an event, i think that is clear.

I think they didnt care enough to prepare to respond and defend. Just like they are destroying Gaza and taking over the west bank without care for the future security risk and global standing such actions will have. They will push and destroy Palestine and use any potential blowback to advance further occupation and aggression.

Just like they want to provoke a war with Iran. Their priority is control of the land and not the security of its people.

I do believe the evidence shows Netanyahu and the Israeli regime are psychopathic and peace and prosperity of the region are not a priority.

I couldnt give a fuck about posting rights.

Daily witnessing of an evil genocide for the last nearly 2 years has fundamentally changed me.

I think they didnt care enough to prepare to respond and defend.

Wow @TulipLavender it's not often Israel gets accused of not caring enough about their citizens.

Imagine what their response to 7/10 would have been if they actually cared, huh?

How does genociding and destroying Gaza actually make Israeli's safer?

Does provoking a war with Iran make Israeli's safer?

Israel's actions in Gaza do not show care for their citizens.

They arent stabilising the region, how many potential terrorists are they creating?

The title of this thread is the thousands protesting in Israel - do you think all of them believe that Israel are acting in their best interests?

I have frequently heard it said that the most dangerous place to be a Jew today is Israel.

Actual care for their citizens would look like actively working to secure long term peace and end the occupation of the Palestinian territories.

But in answer to your question. I think a response to Oct 7 that demonstrated care for Israeli citizens would look like amongst other things:

• a carefully targeted campaign against Hamas which demonstrated Israeli ability to uphold international law.

• telling idf soldiers to exercise restraint and not to film hundreds of videos for social media of them wearing palestinian womens underwear or laughing as they smashed up peoples home - showing the Israeli people that they had a military they could be proud of.

• not attacking ambulances and killing hundreds of paramedics and journalists and all of the other obscene evils commited such as bulldosing people alive with their hand ziptied. Not further fuelling hatred.

• negotiating for the release of the hostages and a longer term peace in which Hamas agreed to step down for a permanent ceasefire and longer term peace negotiations because as long as Palestinians are held under inhumane conditions and denied their freedom and self-determination their will be no lasting peace and security for Israel.

Basically the exact opposite of what Israel did and is doing.