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Conflict in the Middle East

Hundreds of thousands of people in Israel are now protesting the government’s plans to push forward in Gaza and demanding a deal to release the hostages

180 replies

ThatCyanSheep · 18/08/2025 09:58

They’re demanding that the government agrees a deal to release the hostages and stop pushing the military effort forward.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-gaza-war-protests-tel-aviv-b2809283.html

Israeli frustration over the war in Gaza erupts into fierce protests

Protesters demanding a deal to free hostages in Gaza turned out in huge numbers in Tel Aviv on Sunday

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-gaza-war-protests-tel-aviv-b2809283.html

OP posts:
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TulipLavender · 19/08/2025 01:06

Twiglets1 · 18/08/2025 15:33

Do you have any reputable sources or even ones that people in the UK would have heard of?

Never heard of this source and details don't even come up on Google. Is it an Iran-based source by any chance?

In terms of reputable sources here are some must reads:

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-03-21/ty-article/idf-releases-recording-of-army-spotter-killed-on-october-7/0000018e-623f-d541-a78e-ffffd4bb0000

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67958260.amp

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cg7825rk8j9o.amp

Israel had the plans of what Hamas was intending a year before Oct 7. Were warned again by Egypt days before Oct 7.

The IDF spotters at the border saw increasd hamas activity prior to oct 7 including hamas military training; efforts to knock out cameras, rehearsals for shelling of tanks, preparatory explosions at border.

From BBC -
In late September, an observer at Nahal Oz writes in a WhatsApp group of friends in the unit: "What, there is another event?"
A reply quickly follows by voicenote: "Girl, where've you been? We've had one every day for the past two weeks." The look-outs we speak to describe a range of incidents they observed in real-time in the months before 7 October, leading some to have concerns that an attack was coming.
"We would see them practising every day what the raid would look like," Noa, who is still serving in the military, tells the BBC. "They even had a model tank that they were practising how to take over.
"They also had a model of weapons on the fence and they would also show how they would blow it up, and co-ordinate how to take over the forces and kill and kidnap."
Eden Hadar, another observer from the base, remembers that at the start of her service, Hamas fighters were doing mainly fitness training in the section she looked over. But in the months before she left the military in August, she noticed a shift to "actual military training".

From Haaretz - female spotters from Nahal Oz and the neighboring Kissufim who survived the attack later reported that their numerous attempts to warn the army about unusual activity along the border fence were largely ignored in the days and weeks before Hamas' infiltration.

3 Surveillance balloons felled and not repaired.

At 05:30, members of the Golani prepared to begin a jeep patrol along the Israeli side of the fence - something they did before dawn every morning. But they were then instructed by their superiors to delay the patrol and stand back because of a threat of anti-tank missiles, three of them have told BBC.

It took over 3 hours for an IDF helicopter to arrive.

Redirect Notice

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67958260.amp

TulipLavender · 19/08/2025 01:35

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 18/08/2025 19:02

Brilliant deflection there.

I’ve not moved onto another story. These sources collectively demonstrate that the October 7 attack was not a complete surprise- Israeli intelligence had credible advance warnings which went unheeded, leading to one of the most significant intelligence failures in the nation’s history…

What happened Oct 7 was horrendous.
The multiple failings to respond properly to the attack seem to be beyond incompetence.
Had the plans of enemy in advance.
Saw enemy preparing for attack in months and weeks ahead of attack.
Ignored repeated warnings of its spotters.
Told patrol to not patrol border on morning of attack.
Had 3 of its surveillance balloons down and failed to repair them.
More than 3 hours until IDF helicopters arrived (israel is a very small country - did helicopter wait 3 hours or did no one in the completely overrun military outpost of Nadal Oz manage to send sos or call for help?).

Why havent i seen any outrage from supporters of Israel at such incompetence?

Twiglets1 · 19/08/2025 06:42

TulipLavender · 19/08/2025 01:35

What happened Oct 7 was horrendous.
The multiple failings to respond properly to the attack seem to be beyond incompetence.
Had the plans of enemy in advance.
Saw enemy preparing for attack in months and weeks ahead of attack.
Ignored repeated warnings of its spotters.
Told patrol to not patrol border on morning of attack.
Had 3 of its surveillance balloons down and failed to repair them.
More than 3 hours until IDF helicopters arrived (israel is a very small country - did helicopter wait 3 hours or did no one in the completely overrun military outpost of Nadal Oz manage to send sos or call for help?).

Why havent i seen any outrage from supporters of Israel at such incompetence?

Probably because we were in a state of horror at what Hamas has done and then more horror at Hamas and some Palestinians celebrating it.

There may have been failures of Intelligence but when a country has suffered a mass attack with kidnappings, the normal response is not to criticise them ( the victims) for it happening. This isn’t new news and while some people love a conspiracy, you’re skating on very thin ice if you’re trying to suggest Israel caused their own heartbreak.

I’m sure Israel have done their own investigations into what went wrong re intelligence & lessons learnt. I find this speculation ghoulish and in very bad taste. Do you blame other countries for terrorist attacks?

When we hear of other countries suffering big terrorist attacks and civilians killed, is our reaction to blame the country that has been attacked and suffered tragedies? Do we think - I’m outraged at the security breaches? I’m outraged their intelligence service did not take the threat seriously enough? No, we feel great sympathy for that country.

AWitchCalledMeg · 19/08/2025 06:50

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peanutcookie · 19/08/2025 08:07

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I considered reporting your post but I hope it stays so everyone can see just how horrible it is. And what does it have to do with the OP anyway?

ThatCyanSheep · 19/08/2025 08:09

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What the fuck has this got to do with Israel committing a genocide?!

OP posts:
Twiglets1 · 19/08/2025 08:10

With regard to failures of intelligence not being "new news" it was reported in the BBC (& other sources) in April 2024 that

The Israeli military's intelligence chief has resigned, saying he took responsibility for the failures before Hamas's attack on Israel on 7 October.

He acknowledged in a letter that his intelligence directorate "did not live up to the task we were entrusted with".

He is the first senior figure to step down over the attack, which was the deadliest in Israel's history.

Israeli military and intelligence officials missed or ignored multiple warnings before hundreds of Hamas gunmen breached the Gaza border fence that day and attacked nearby Israeli communities, military bases and a music festival.

About 1,200 Israelis and foreigners - mostly civilians - were killed and 253 others were taken back to Gaza as hostages, according to Israeli tallies.

Israel responded by launching its most intense ever war in Gaza with the aims of destroying Hamas and freeing the hostages.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68873227

Beachtastic · 19/08/2025 08:26

@Twiglets1 Ah, but that's not nearly as much fun as saying that Israel set the whole thing up because they are just evil bastards. Honestly, I despair of this forum!

I suppose it's not necessarily antisemitism (given that people still talk about 9/11 being an "inside job"), although PP's comments about Jewish people in California obviously being no different from anyone living in Israel are somewhat sinister.

Maybe it's just that people cannot get their liberal Western minds around what Islamic terrorism actually means, what its clearly stated aims are, and how it repeatedly demonstrates its methods for achieving them.

ThatCyanSheep · 19/08/2025 08:28

Beachtastic · 19/08/2025 08:26

@Twiglets1 Ah, but that's not nearly as much fun as saying that Israel set the whole thing up because they are just evil bastards. Honestly, I despair of this forum!

I suppose it's not necessarily antisemitism (given that people still talk about 9/11 being an "inside job"), although PP's comments about Jewish people in California obviously being no different from anyone living in Israel are somewhat sinister.

Maybe it's just that people cannot get their liberal Western minds around what Islamic terrorism actually means, what its clearly stated aims are, and how it repeatedly demonstrates its methods for achieving them.

Nobody has said that Israel set it up.

What has been said is that the genocide in Gaza is justified because of immigration into this country. At a time when this thread when the child hostages in Israel were being discussed.

OP posts:
Beachtastic · 19/08/2025 08:29

ThatCyanSheep · 19/08/2025 08:09

What the fuck has this got to do with Israel committing a genocide?!

I suppose what it has to do with it is that we have a different perception of who is the underdog in this situation. Israel is literally surrounded by ME countries that make no secret of wanting to wipe it out, and not everyone shares the callous disregard for the atrocities of 7 Oct to dismiss them as an inside job.

ThatCyanSheep · 19/08/2025 08:29

Beachtastic · 19/08/2025 08:29

I suppose what it has to do with it is that we have a different perception of who is the underdog in this situation. Israel is literally surrounded by ME countries that make no secret of wanting to wipe it out, and not everyone shares the callous disregard for the atrocities of 7 Oct to dismiss them as an inside job.

No. What it is is a disgustingly racist comment that is being allowed to stand. Absolutely vile.

OP posts:
Beachtastic · 19/08/2025 08:30

ThatCyanSheep · 19/08/2025 08:29

No. What it is is a disgustingly racist comment that is being allowed to stand. Absolutely vile.

Likewise the ones on here saying 7 Oct was a setup by the Israeli government. WTAF?

ThatCyanSheep · 19/08/2025 08:32

Beachtastic · 19/08/2025 08:30

Likewise the ones on here saying 7 Oct was a setup by the Israeli government. WTAF?

Nobody has said that.

OP posts:
Beachtastic · 19/08/2025 08:35

ThatCyanSheep · 19/08/2025 08:32

Nobody has said that.

So what exactly was implied by this post (among others)?

They seem to only want the war to stop because of the hostages, understandable, but are they against the war itself? I too remain with questions about the Hamas attack, it was too easy for them. Israel are renowned for their high quality of intelligence gathering and the protection of their borders but no one was there to fight back at a crucial time. I remember reading troops had been withdrawn from that area and deployed elsewhere.

ThatCyanSheep · 19/08/2025 08:37

Beachtastic · 19/08/2025 08:35

So what exactly was implied by this post (among others)?

They seem to only want the war to stop because of the hostages, understandable, but are they against the war itself? I too remain with questions about the Hamas attack, it was too easy for them. Israel are renowned for their high quality of intelligence gathering and the protection of their borders but no one was there to fight back at a crucial time. I remember reading troops had been withdrawn from that area and deployed elsewhere.

The poster said they have questions. Is that not allowed now? Whether or not they have questions, the statement posted that the genocide is okay because of immigration into this country is disgraceful.

OP posts:
Beachtastic · 19/08/2025 08:38

ThatCyanSheep · 19/08/2025 08:37

The poster said they have questions. Is that not allowed now? Whether or not they have questions, the statement posted that the genocide is okay because of immigration into this country is disgraceful.

The implications of those "questions" are pretty clear, though, aren't they...?

Twiglets1 · 19/08/2025 08:41

Beachtastic · 19/08/2025 08:26

@Twiglets1 Ah, but that's not nearly as much fun as saying that Israel set the whole thing up because they are just evil bastards. Honestly, I despair of this forum!

I suppose it's not necessarily antisemitism (given that people still talk about 9/11 being an "inside job"), although PP's comments about Jewish people in California obviously being no different from anyone living in Israel are somewhat sinister.

Maybe it's just that people cannot get their liberal Western minds around what Islamic terrorism actually means, what its clearly stated aims are, and how it repeatedly demonstrates its methods for achieving them.

Yes I realised yesterday that one of the people I was "debating" with was basically just a conspiracy theorist who probably holds similar views about 9/11, Covid etc.

In real life I have steered very well clear of bothering to argue with people like that! (it was a lesson to myself not to get sucked into arguing with people who are completely unreasonable).

Twiglets1 · 19/08/2025 08:44

ThatCyanSheep · 19/08/2025 08:29

No. What it is is a disgustingly racist comment that is being allowed to stand. Absolutely vile.

It will get removed when people report it (which I now have done). It isn't being "allowed to stand" if MN are unaware of it.

ThatCyanSheep · 19/08/2025 08:46

Twiglets1 · 19/08/2025 08:44

It will get removed when people report it (which I now have done). It isn't being "allowed to stand" if MN are unaware of it.

I have already reported it.

the irony is that your “reasonable” stand point is you’re arguing in defence of someone who has said they essentially think all Muslims should be wiped out. How rational.

OP posts:
Twiglets1 · 19/08/2025 08:49

ThatCyanSheep · 19/08/2025 08:46

I have already reported it.

the irony is that your “reasonable” stand point is you’re arguing in defence of someone who has said they essentially think all Muslims should be wiped out. How rational.

So at least 2 people have reported it and it will be removed soon.

MN don't let racist things stand but it takes time to get round to removing all the posts that get reported.

Not quite sure what your last sentence refers to - who am I defending with that view of Muslims in your mind?

ThatCyanSheep · 19/08/2025 08:49

Twiglets1 · 19/08/2025 08:49

So at least 2 people have reported it and it will be removed soon.

MN don't let racist things stand but it takes time to get round to removing all the posts that get reported.

Not quite sure what your last sentence refers to - who am I defending with that view of Muslims in your mind?

The poster that has been reported.

OP posts:
Twiglets1 · 19/08/2025 08:50

ThatCyanSheep · 19/08/2025 08:49

The poster that has been reported.

I'm not defending them, I reported them.

I'm defending the MN mods who you accused of allowing a racist comment to stand.

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 19/08/2025 08:52

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Right, so Palestinians should lose their lives (?) and homeland because there are already “57 Muslim countries”? By that logic, we should get rid of most of Europe because there are already plenty of Christian countries. Also, calling Africans and Muslims a “barbaric culture” while defending colonisation is…the irony writes itself.

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 19/08/2025 08:54

Beachtastic · 19/08/2025 08:29

I suppose what it has to do with it is that we have a different perception of who is the underdog in this situation. Israel is literally surrounded by ME countries that make no secret of wanting to wipe it out, and not everyone shares the callous disregard for the atrocities of 7 Oct to dismiss them as an inside job.

Do you agree with that comment from Meg?

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 19/08/2025 09:02

Twiglets1 · 19/08/2025 08:10

With regard to failures of intelligence not being "new news" it was reported in the BBC (& other sources) in April 2024 that

The Israeli military's intelligence chief has resigned, saying he took responsibility for the failures before Hamas's attack on Israel on 7 October.

He acknowledged in a letter that his intelligence directorate "did not live up to the task we were entrusted with".

He is the first senior figure to step down over the attack, which was the deadliest in Israel's history.

Israeli military and intelligence officials missed or ignored multiple warnings before hundreds of Hamas gunmen breached the Gaza border fence that day and attacked nearby Israeli communities, military bases and a music festival.

About 1,200 Israelis and foreigners - mostly civilians - were killed and 253 others were taken back to Gaza as hostages, according to Israeli tallies.

Israel responded by launching its most intense ever war in Gaza with the aims of destroying Hamas and freeing the hostages.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68873227

I want to be clear- I don’t believe Oct 7 was an ‘inside job’ in any way. I do think Israel was warned beforehand and failed to act, which contributed directly to the massacre.