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Conflict in the Middle East

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So are MSF wrong about Gaza too?

343 replies

OneKookyShark · 07/08/2025 13:48

I have read multiple posts both on here and on the CITME forum- and I am aware how toxic the debate is.

But surely when Legitimate and highly respected international NGO talks of ‘orchestrated killing and dehuminisation”, then it starts to become utterly undeniable?

I am sure someone will be along to tell me otherwise. I also note that Netenyahu has ordered a full occupation of Gaza city today.

“Médecins Sans Frontières calls for immediate closure of Gaza Humanitarian Foundation
The medical NGO Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF) has called for the immediate closure of Gaza Humanitarian Foundation (GHF), the US- and Israeli-backed aid organisation operating in Gaza, describing GHF-run food distribution sites in Gaza as having become sites of “orchestrated killing and dehumanisation”.
In a social media post on Thursday, MSF wrote:
“In MSF’s nearly 54 years of operations, rarely have we seen such levels of systematic violence against unarmed civilians.”
The GHF-run food distributions in Gaza, Palestine, have become sites of “orchestrated killing and dehumanisation”, not humanitarian aid.
In a new report, MSF analysed medical data, patients’ testimonies and first-hand medical witnesses at two MSF clinics in Gaza and found that it “point[ed] to both targeted and indiscriminate violence by Israeli forces and private American contractors against starved Palestinians” at food distribution sites run by the GHF”

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MidwinterSpring · 20/08/2025 17:32

@PurpleChrayn Oh so now MSF are hamas too are they. No-one believes this crap any more.

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 20/08/2025 19:10

Twiglets1 · 20/08/2025 15:49

Some interesting things in this report for anyone interested in gaining more information (some you may disagree with, some not) - THE GAZA HUMANITARIAN FOUNDATION – SEPARATING THE TRUTH FROM THE LIES

henryjacksonsociety.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/HJS-Gaza-Humanitarian-Foundation-Briefing-web.pdf

Just a heads-up for anyone checking out that HJS report by Andrew Fox- I’ve done a bit of digging on both him and the think tank.

Fox is a former British Army officer with lots of Middle East experience, including Gaza and Lebanon, and he’s obviously pro-Israel.

His report mainly frames the humanitarian situation around Hamas’s actions, like using human shields and embedding military infrastructure in civilian areas, and it tends to shift responsibility away from Israel.

The Henry Jackson Society itself is a neoconservative think tank with a pretty clear pro-Western, pro-Israel tilt. So while the report gives some detail on the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation’s operations, it’s worth remembering the perspective it’s coming from. For a fuller picture, I’d suggest cross-referencing with independent humanitarian orgs and media sources.

Basically, it’s useful info, but take it with a pinch of salt regarding the bigger picture of civilian impact.

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 20/08/2025 19:10

MidwinterSpring · 20/08/2025 17:32

@PurpleChrayn Oh so now MSF are hamas too are they. No-one believes this crap any more.

Oh yes, this was established several threads back apparently 😳

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 20/08/2025 19:13

Twiglets1 · 20/08/2025 15:03

Published by Camera (Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting and Anaylysis)

Channel 4 News presenter launders terrorist propaganda
From the moment the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation (GHF) was first publicly discussed, Andrew Fox of the Henry Jackson Society wrote last month in an in-depth report, “Hamas has regarded it as a direct threat to its interests”.

On 26 May 2025, as the GHF, the US-Israeli aid distribution scheme that bypasses a proscribed terror organisation and reduces its control over the civilian population, opened its first centres, Hamas, Fox noted, condemned the organisation as an “agent of the occupation” and warned Palestinians not to cooperate. “Anyone who accepts their assistance will pay the price, and we will take the necessary measures”, they said. In short, Hamas is threatened by this new operating model and pledged to do everything in its power to see it fail.

The British media’s one-sided, highly critical coverage of the GHF has been clear from the start. Most outlets routinely promote unsubstantiated claims by the Hamas-controlled health ministry accusing the IDF of killing ‘innocent Palestinians in queue for food’, while ignoring evidence of Hamas’s efforts to sabotage the aid distribution system, which has included armed attacks at or near GHF sites.

“It is absolutely defamatory and shameful”, Fox argues in his HJS report, how quickly “unvetted allegations” by Hamas and other about GHF, which has distributed close to 125 million meals to date, are circulated within the Western media “while the terror group’s role in inciting violence is downplayed”.

One of the most egregious examples of a British media outlet promoting Hamas propaganda occurred during an Channel 4 News interview of GHF Spokesperson Chapin Fay, by presenter Krishnan Guru-Murthy, which aired on Aug 15.

While there are numerous examples of Guru-Murthy spreading disinformation and falsely accusing Fay of lying, the most astonishing narrative promoted by the presenter in the 23 minute exchange was when the presenter said or asked several times, in different variations, “Aren’t you the bait in a death trap? You’re luring people in and then they’re getting killed”.

Fay correctly called that out as Hamas propaganda.

In fact, the proscribed terror group first made that claim on May 27, one day after GHF began operating. “The occupation forces, positioned in or around those areas, opened live fire on starving civilians who were lured to these locations under the pretence of receiving aid,” the Hamas-run Government Media Office said.

The Hamas media office repeated the libel on June 3, writing that “These sites are nothing short of baited killing grounds. Civilians, driven by starvation under an imposed siege and famine, are lured to these areas and then gunned down in cold blood.“.

Euro-Med Human Rights Monitor, the Hamas-affiliated propaganda front which masquerades as a “human rights group”, issued a press release on July 20 titled “Starving civilians in northern Gaza lured to aid sites and executed, revealing brutal pattern of Israel’s genocide“.

In short, the Channel 4 News presenter promoted, in his own voice, the demented Hamas conspiracy-theory that Israel and the US set up a fake food distribution service as bait to lure Palestinians there so that Israel can murder them – the laundering of terrorist propaganda that you’d expect to see on Iranian Press TV rather than on a publicly-owned British broadcaster.

camera-uk.org/2025/08/17/channel-4-news-presenter-launders-terrorist-propaganda/

Just flagging that Andrew Fox/HJS reports are very pro-Israel and critical of Hamas. They tend to downplay civilian suffering and amplify certain narratives, so I’d cross-check with independent humanitarian sources before taking it at face value.

PinkBobby · 20/08/2025 21:29

https://www.timesofisrael.com/after-seeing-misery-up-close-the-man-feeding-gaza-says-theres-no-doubt-strip-is-starving/amp/

Just read this article and thought it worth sharing on here as a comparison to GHF.

Twiglets1 · 21/08/2025 06:19

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 20/08/2025 19:13

Just flagging that Andrew Fox/HJS reports are very pro-Israel and critical of Hamas. They tend to downplay civilian suffering and amplify certain narratives, so I’d cross-check with independent humanitarian sources before taking it at face value.

Oh yes we wouldn’t want to believe anyone critical of Hamas would we?

From what I can tell, no sources are completely unbiased but naturally you warn readers if you think a source is “pro Israel and anti Hamas”.

I don’t see these warnings in place when people quote from Al Jazeera, Iran TV or the Hamas run ministries.

Weltall · 21/08/2025 12:03

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 20/08/2025 19:13

Just flagging that Andrew Fox/HJS reports are very pro-Israel and critical of Hamas. They tend to downplay civilian suffering and amplify certain narratives, so I’d cross-check with independent humanitarian sources before taking it at face value.

@Wedonttalkaboutboris
Why do you say critical of Hamas like it's a bad thing?

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 21/08/2025 19:38

Weltall · 21/08/2025 12:03

@Wedonttalkaboutboris
Why do you say critical of Hamas like it's a bad thing?

I’m not saying criticism of Hamas is wrong- of course it’s justified.

My point is that Fox’s reports focus so heavily on Hamas that they downplay the human suffering in Gaza. It’s about balance: always good to check multiple sources to see the full picture.

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 21/08/2025 19:38

Of course I could just secretly be a Hamas terrorist 🙄

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 21/08/2025 19:42

Article in the Guardian today:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2025/aug/21/revealed-israeli-militarys-own-data-indicates-civilian-death-rate-of-83-in-gaza-war

Figures from a classified Israeli military intelligence database indicate five out of six Palestinians killed by Israeli forces in Gaza have been civilians, an extreme rate of slaughter rarely matched in recent decades of warfare.

The vast majority of Palestinians slaughtered by Israel in Gaza are civilians.

Revealed: Israeli military’s own data indicates civilian death rate of 83% in Gaza war

Figures from classified IDF database listed 8,900 named fighters as dead or probably dead in May, as overall death toll reached 53,000

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2025/aug/21/revealed-israeli-militarys-own-data-indicates-civilian-death-rate-of-83-in-gaza-war

Weltall · 21/08/2025 21:41

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 21/08/2025 19:38

Of course I could just secretly be a Hamas terrorist 🙄

Not sure why you felt the need to make that comment. No one has accused you of being a terrorist. Confused

MidwinterSpring · 21/08/2025 21:43

Weltall · 21/08/2025 21:41

Not sure why you felt the need to make that comment. No one has accused you of being a terrorist. Confused

Well I've seen people accuse every one from MSF to the united nations to amnesty international of being Hamas so why not!

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 22/08/2025 08:59

Weltall · 21/08/2025 21:41

Not sure why you felt the need to make that comment. No one has accused you of being a terrorist. Confused

I’ve been accused of being a Hamas sympathiser/supporter several times. Simply for repeating the same facts about this humanitarian crisis and highlighting the war crimes being committed.

Weltall · 22/08/2025 09:44

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 22/08/2025 08:59

I’ve been accused of being a Hamas sympathiser/supporter several times. Simply for repeating the same facts about this humanitarian crisis and highlighting the war crimes being committed.

There's quite a leap between that and implying that people asking you to clarify a statement are accusing you of being a member of an actual violent terrorist organisation.

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 22/08/2025 09:45

Weltall · 22/08/2025 09:44

There's quite a leap between that and implying that people asking you to clarify a statement are accusing you of being a member of an actual violent terrorist organisation.

Yes, there’s been a lot of leaps and reaches going on. I was pre-empting those.

Weltall · 22/08/2025 10:05

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 22/08/2025 09:45

Yes, there’s been a lot of leaps and reaches going on. I was pre-empting those.

You think someone was going to accuse you of being a literal terrorist? Who?Im assuming one of us you asked you about the "critical of Hamas" comment, but I've never seen that accusation on here let alone made it.

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 22/08/2025 10:11

Weltall · 22/08/2025 10:05

You think someone was going to accuse you of being a literal terrorist? Who?Im assuming one of us you asked you about the "critical of Hamas" comment, but I've never seen that accusation on here let alone made it.

Ok 🤷‍♀️
Well I have, lots.

Maybe you haven’t been on the threads I’ve been on?

Anyway, back to the actual point…

Weltall · 22/08/2025 10:29

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 22/08/2025 10:11

Ok 🤷‍♀️
Well I have, lots.

Maybe you haven’t been on the threads I’ve been on?

Anyway, back to the actual point…

Really? People have called you an actual terrorist based in the middle east who carried out actual terror attacks? And you thought Twiglets or I were going to do so simply because we asked you why meant saying someone was unreliable because they're critical of Hamas? Because that is a huge fucking accusation on your part.

Maybe you haven’t been on the threads I’ve been on?

I probably have, since that's most of the threads on this board.

Weltall · 22/08/2025 10:30

PinkBobby · 22/08/2025 10:10

Rather than getting into back and forth, let’s focus on the real issues.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/ckgj0yn3dzjt

Yeah, let's just ignore the insulting accusations about other posters. Fucking hell.

Twiglets1 · 22/08/2025 10:38

Weltall · 22/08/2025 10:29

Really? People have called you an actual terrorist based in the middle east who carried out actual terror attacks? And you thought Twiglets or I were going to do so simply because we asked you why meant saying someone was unreliable because they're critical of Hamas? Because that is a huge fucking accusation on your part.

Maybe you haven’t been on the threads I’ve been on?

I probably have, since that's most of the threads on this board.

Edited

Can confirm I have never called Boris a secret Hamas terrorist in the dozens of conversations we have had.

Pretty obvious that no one would say such a ridiculous thing.

Insulting accusations do tend to be ignored when coming from that side of the debate.

PinkBobby · 22/08/2025 10:45

Weltall · 22/08/2025 10:30

Yeah, let's just ignore the insulting accusations about other posters. Fucking hell.

I’m sorry but I really would prefer this thread focused on the people dying and suffering in Gaza.

OonaStubbs · 22/08/2025 10:49

Why don't Hamas properly identify their forces so that they can be differentiated from civilians?

Twiglets1 · 22/08/2025 10:57

OonaStubbs · 22/08/2025 10:49

Why don't Hamas properly identify their forces so that they can be differentiated from civilians?

Refreshing to see a question that focuses on Hamas.

I think the answer is they are a bunch of terrorists who put no value on human death and suffering so are happy for Gazans to be used as human shields and collateral damage (apart from their own wives and children who were mostly sent abroad before 7/10).

PinkBobby · 22/08/2025 10:57

Twiglets1 · 22/08/2025 10:38

Can confirm I have never called Boris a secret Hamas terrorist in the dozens of conversations we have had.

Pretty obvious that no one would say such a ridiculous thing.

Insulting accusations do tend to be ignored when coming from that side of the debate.

@Wedonttalkaboutboris clarified themselves re Hamas (rightly so re wording, I think) and then made a flippant sarcastic comment along the lines of “or maybe I’m Hamas”.

I think it then, as can often happen, became an angry back and forth. People have made some wild comments on some of the CITME boards suggesting people who questions Israel’s motives/actions are Hamas supporters so I can see why the sarcastic comment was made. I can also see why you’d be annoyed if you interpreted that comment as an accusation. I understand the frustration on both sides but think it’s more useful to get back to the main topic.

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