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Conflict in the Middle East
OneNeatBlueOrca · 02/08/2025 12:53

soupyspoon · 02/08/2025 12:47

No, Hamas is a political entity. The Palestinians are the population. Are you saying Palestinians dont support the wider aims of Hamas, are they at odds with the overal aims of Hamas?

They elected Hamas so I'd say they support them

HellsBalls · 02/08/2025 12:55

@itt “France doesn't seem to care about the risk to French Arabs by letting Israelis in? ”

How many attacks have been carried out by Jews in France?
How many attacks have been carried out by Islamists in France?

OP posts:
Beachtastic · 02/08/2025 13:02

itt · 02/08/2025 12:37

The Israeli government who were voted in by Israelis just a few years ago arm terrorist gangs in Gaza and aid violent illegal settlers in murder, in fact they voted in a convicted terrorist supporter who has been open about his wish to starve children. It's quite a worryingly laissez-faire attitude to terrorism and humanity. So should countries think twice about allowing Israelis in?

Judaism doesn't pose the same risks to national security as radical Islam. Mainly because it does not seek to convert, whereas radical Islam seeks to establish a global Islamic order governed by Sharia law and will use any means to achieve this (or just to instil terror). I think it's quite difficult for the Western mind to comprehend, because Christian expansionism died a death long ago so we simply don't think in those terms any more. That's probably part of the reason Hamas got away with promoting 7 Oct as an understandable act of retaliation - they knew this would appeal to the Western mindset.

www.poolre.co.uk/terrorism-threat-publications/report-the-current-state-of-islamist-terrorism-in-the-uk/

itt · 02/08/2025 13:05

HellsBalls · 02/08/2025 12:55

@itt “France doesn't seem to care about the risk to French Arabs by letting Israelis in? ”

How many attacks have been carried out by Jews in France?
How many attacks have been carried out by Islamists in France?

I thought we were talking about Palestinians here, now we are equating Palestinians with all Islamists and Israelis with all Jews?

Beachtastic · 02/08/2025 13:09

itt · 02/08/2025 13:05

I thought we were talking about Palestinians here, now we are equating Palestinians with all Islamists and Israelis with all Jews?

Gazan civilians and their elected government recently carried out one of the most significant acts of global terrorism in recent history, and you are wondering why France doesn't treat them with caution?

itt · 02/08/2025 13:14

Beachtastic · 02/08/2025 13:02

Judaism doesn't pose the same risks to national security as radical Islam. Mainly because it does not seek to convert, whereas radical Islam seeks to establish a global Islamic order governed by Sharia law and will use any means to achieve this (or just to instil terror). I think it's quite difficult for the Western mind to comprehend, because Christian expansionism died a death long ago so we simply don't think in those terms any more. That's probably part of the reason Hamas got away with promoting 7 Oct as an understandable act of retaliation - they knew this would appeal to the Western mindset.

www.poolre.co.uk/terrorism-threat-publications/report-the-current-state-of-islamist-terrorism-in-the-uk/

Jewish terrorism poses a risk to Arabs. That's pretty clear from the fact that so many Arabs have been killed by them. The person I replied to was arguing that allowing Palestinians in would increase antisemitism and that this is to protect against it. Surely you can see why French Arabs might fear these people, why the people who chant 'Death to Arabs' and who come from a country which perpetrates racial segregation and deadly violence towards Arabs daily might pose a risk?

If a tweets from one person are enough to ban Gazans then surely there is more than enough to ban Israelis too? Let's keep everyone safe.

soupyspoon · 02/08/2025 13:16

itt · 02/08/2025 13:05

I thought we were talking about Palestinians here, now we are equating Palestinians with all Islamists and Israelis with all Jews?

The vast majority of Palestinians are Muslim are they not? Supporting a Muslim state?

Its more accurate then to ask how many terror attacks do Israelis commit across the world.

dairydebris · 02/08/2025 13:20

itt · 02/08/2025 13:14

Jewish terrorism poses a risk to Arabs. That's pretty clear from the fact that so many Arabs have been killed by them. The person I replied to was arguing that allowing Palestinians in would increase antisemitism and that this is to protect against it. Surely you can see why French Arabs might fear these people, why the people who chant 'Death to Arabs' and who come from a country which perpetrates racial segregation and deadly violence towards Arabs daily might pose a risk?

If a tweets from one person are enough to ban Gazans then surely there is more than enough to ban Israelis too? Let's keep everyone safe.

Jewish terrorism poses a risk to Arabs in Israel / Palestine.

Islamic terrorism poses a risk to Jews and others in the Middle East, North Africa, Europe and other places.

The 2 are not directly comparable.

You tell me one incident of Jewish terrorism outside of Israel / Palestine.

And now how many incidents of Islamic terrorism outside of Israel / Palestine can you think of?

itt · 02/08/2025 13:20

soupyspoon · 02/08/2025 13:16

The vast majority of Palestinians are Muslim are they not? Supporting a Muslim state?

Its more accurate then to ask how many terror attacks do Israelis commit across the world.

So daily attacks against Arabs are fine because they keep it localised for now? See this is hypocracy that gets me everytime. People aren't against terrorism in general, they are against terrorism against them. Happy to turn a blind eye to Jewish terrorism because you feel safe, you feel like you won't be the target. Do you think that French Arabs feel the same confidence as you do that Jewish terrosists if given the chance won't attack them too?

LadyCankleOfGrantham · 02/08/2025 13:21

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

LadyCankleOfGrantham · 02/08/2025 13:22

EasternStandard · 02/08/2025 10:41

It looks like they thought the screening would avoid this, so need to review it all again.

Yes makes sense.

Vivi0 · 02/08/2025 13:23

itt · 02/08/2025 12:34

France doesn't seem to care about the risk to French Arabs by letting Israelis in? 5 mins on twitter or the Israel subreddit will give you plenty of racist, disgusting views from Israelis to screenshot. The majority of Israelis want to ethnically cleanse Palestinians, a shocking amount of them want every man, woman and child killed if polls are to be believed. Just last week there was a video of a cruise ship of Israelis chanting 'Death to Arabs'. Does that mean you would support a blanket ban on visas for Israelis?

What risk to French Arabs?

Israeli’s aren’t running around Paris on shooting sprees, killing 137 people in a single day.

They aren’t driving trucks into crowds.

They aren't beheading French teachers or priests.

France has and has had enough problems will Islamic extremism and terrorism. They care about actual risk.

Does that mean you would support a blanket ban on visas for Israelis?

What has any of this got to do with Israeli’s? Why are you dragging Jewish people into a situation that has absolutely nothing to do with them.

Redrosesposies · 02/08/2025 13:23

ComeAsYouAreAsAFriend · 02/08/2025 10:37

Very disappointing that Palestinians as a whole are being punished for the actions of one. I'm sure there's a word for this

You do know that the vast majority of Palestinians feel the same don't you?

LadyCankleOfGrantham · 02/08/2025 13:24

OneNeatBlueOrca · 02/08/2025 10:43

Just one Palestinian person has these views?!

Right. So rhere weren't widespread celebrations in Gaza from the ordinary population regarding the massacre on October 7th.

I think the sooner we park the notion that all Palestinians are lovely innocent persecuted people who can do no wrong the better. We keep being shown otherwise. I’ll never forget the footage of ordinary citizens dancing over October 7th or celebrating the Bibas babies deaths.

SisterTeatime · 02/08/2025 13:24

Beachtastic · 02/08/2025 13:02

Judaism doesn't pose the same risks to national security as radical Islam. Mainly because it does not seek to convert, whereas radical Islam seeks to establish a global Islamic order governed by Sharia law and will use any means to achieve this (or just to instil terror). I think it's quite difficult for the Western mind to comprehend, because Christian expansionism died a death long ago so we simply don't think in those terms any more. That's probably part of the reason Hamas got away with promoting 7 Oct as an understandable act of retaliation - they knew this would appeal to the Western mindset.

www.poolre.co.uk/terrorism-threat-publications/report-the-current-state-of-islamist-terrorism-in-the-uk/

Thanks for this. I agree that Oct 7 is framed as ‘well nobody would do this unprovoked’ -Western sympathisers have to believe, at least to some degree, that Israel provoked, caused, and deserved it. Otherwise, they’d have to ask themselves what kind of monsters would commit such atrocities. And in a largely secular country and culture, most people don’t have the ability to imagine the kind of tribal or religious mindset that does, and throughout history has, allowed people to do this kind of thing.

It’s really important, too, that people understand that there really aren’t that many Jews in the world and that not only do Jews not want to convert you, they make it really hard to convert. This context is so often missing from these conversations.

LadyCankleOfGrantham · 02/08/2025 13:27

ComeAsYouAreAsAFriend · 02/08/2025 11:09

That's not what I'm saying, that is what is being used as the reason the French government has suspended Gazan evacuations. Would you like if this was used as a reason for suspending you from entering other countries? I mean less face it all of us have fellow countrymen that are racists, criminals, rapists etc etc.

Immigration Departments have to consider the culture of countries they’re accepting people from. So I think there is an argument for tarring people with the same brush actually. Palestine hardly gives its hatred for Jewish people.

But it’s a huge shame for those who are not antisemitic who have been affected by this. They should be very angry at Nour A (though I’m sure there’ll be many people clamouring to somehow blame Israel)

notimagain · 02/08/2025 13:28

Those that follow French issues/history at even a basic level will know that officialdom and many organisations are highly sensitive to any hints of anti-semitism or being involved in facilitating the same.

Sounds like this student played FAFO in their new country of residence and the FO has happened promptly.

I guess the screening process for all the new arrivals from Gaza will have to be revised.

soupyspoon · 02/08/2025 13:29

itt · 02/08/2025 13:20

So daily attacks against Arabs are fine because they keep it localised for now? See this is hypocracy that gets me everytime. People aren't against terrorism in general, they are against terrorism against them. Happy to turn a blind eye to Jewish terrorism because you feel safe, you feel like you won't be the target. Do you think that French Arabs feel the same confidence as you do that Jewish terrosists if given the chance won't attack them too?

The conversation here is about whether another country would be right or wrong to deny entry based on the nationality of the person

No France is not wrong to deny entry on the basis of someone being an Arabic Muslim Palestinian given their aims with regard to Jewish people in Israel and outside of Israel

Yes France would be wrong to deny entry to a Jewish Israeli based on their assumed aims to retain a Jewish state and remove Palestinians from Gaza.

I dont accept those assumed aims by the way, but lets leave them there for sake of argument.

LadyCankleOfGrantham · 02/08/2025 13:29

ComeAsYouAreAsAFriend · 02/08/2025 11:14

Yes. I agree

Fair enough. So is it fair then to associate all Israelis with the words and actions of the illegal settlers? the right wing ministers? the posters on social media that call for the deaths of all Palestinians? The Israelis that are actively trying to block aid into Gaza? and so on.

The figure in April of Palestinians from Gaza being evacuated to France was 100 so I'm sure that's increased since then but 1 individuals social media posts is being used to stop more.

People DO paint Israelis and diaspora Jews across the world with this brush. So don’t you worry - it’s already happening and people are suffering, you can rest easy.

But we are talking about out an immigration policy - not saying people should paint all Gazans generally with the same brush

ComeAsYouAreAsAFriend · 02/08/2025 13:32

Twiglets1 · 02/08/2025 12:53

Oh I see we are in Alice in Wonderland territory again where the truth is what people view it as and not what seems plain to see - in this example that I'm using inflammatory language.

Well it works for Trump - the truth is what he says it is apparently.

where the truth is what people view it as and not what seems plain to see
No idea what you are talking about. I view your accusation that I turn against UK and France because I don't agree with everything they do as inflammatory, you don't agree fine but maybe respect my view on it and refrain from using it again.

Well it works for Trump - the truth is what he says it is apparently.
I gave a dictionary definition of the term. Not what my "truth" is at all. Take it up with Collins.

soupyspoon · 02/08/2025 13:33

notimagain · 02/08/2025 13:28

Those that follow French issues/history at even a basic level will know that officialdom and many organisations are highly sensitive to any hints of anti-semitism or being involved in facilitating the same.

Sounds like this student played FAFO in their new country of residence and the FO has happened promptly.

I guess the screening process for all the new arrivals from Gaza will have to be revised.

I dont know what a lot of those letters mean, however on your last point about screening processes, I mean whats that going to look like ?

Erm are you anti semitic? Do you wish death to all Jews? Do you want to see the end of the Jewish state?

Oh of course not officer, no Im happy as things stand and in fact my best friend's mothers, neighbours, cat's milk man is a Jewish person, please let me in.

Vivi0 · 02/08/2025 13:33

itt · 02/08/2025 13:20

So daily attacks against Arabs are fine because they keep it localised for now? See this is hypocracy that gets me everytime. People aren't against terrorism in general, they are against terrorism against them. Happy to turn a blind eye to Jewish terrorism because you feel safe, you feel like you won't be the target. Do you think that French Arabs feel the same confidence as you do that Jewish terrosists if given the chance won't attack them too?

Do you think that French Arabs feel the same confidence as you do that Jewish terrosists if given the chance won't attack them too?

The only attacks French Arabs are at risk from in France is Islamic terrorist attacks.

We have all seen these attacks happen and unfold in France over the past decade.

It’s incredible that you actually believe anyone in France is at risk from Jewish “terrorists”.

Can you provide any more information on any of these Jewish “terrorist organisations” operating in France? Or are they just a figment of your imagination?

LadyCankleOfGrantham · 02/08/2025 13:34

itt · 02/08/2025 12:34

France doesn't seem to care about the risk to French Arabs by letting Israelis in? 5 mins on twitter or the Israel subreddit will give you plenty of racist, disgusting views from Israelis to screenshot. The majority of Israelis want to ethnically cleanse Palestinians, a shocking amount of them want every man, woman and child killed if polls are to be believed. Just last week there was a video of a cruise ship of Israelis chanting 'Death to Arabs'. Does that mean you would support a blanket ban on visas for Israelis?

The majority of Israelis want to ethnically cleanse Palestinians, a shocking amount of them want every man, woman and child killed if polls are to be believed

Source please

quantumbutterfly · 02/08/2025 13:36

soupyspoon · 02/08/2025 13:33

I dont know what a lot of those letters mean, however on your last point about screening processes, I mean whats that going to look like ?

Erm are you anti semitic? Do you wish death to all Jews? Do you want to see the end of the Jewish state?

Oh of course not officer, no Im happy as things stand and in fact my best friend's mothers, neighbours, cat's milk man is a Jewish person, please let me in.

fafo = fuck around and find out

(google is your friend)

also see fifo = fit in or fuck off

LadyCankleOfGrantham · 02/08/2025 13:37

dairydebris · 02/08/2025 13:20

Jewish terrorism poses a risk to Arabs in Israel / Palestine.

Islamic terrorism poses a risk to Jews and others in the Middle East, North Africa, Europe and other places.

The 2 are not directly comparable.

You tell me one incident of Jewish terrorism outside of Israel / Palestine.

And now how many incidents of Islamic terrorism outside of Israel / Palestine can you think of?

What is Jewish terrorism?