Why kill Dr Marwan Sultan?

[TakeMe2Insanity]

Just that, why kill one of the few (2) cardiologists and his WHOLE family? So much for the targeted attacks. Or shall we go with the current zionist theory that all of Gaza is a sleeper cell.
Israel needs to be held to account for the hell they have created.

It’s surprising that some people have not yet got the true measure of the drivers of the conflict from within Israel.

You have far right Knesset members who support the ongoing war and ethnic cleansing of Gaza.

You have a PM of Israel who people think is continuing the war to avoid fraud charges.

But it’s always “but Hamas, but Hamas.”

“National Security Minister Itamar Ben Gvir reportedly reached out Wednesday to Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich to request that the two far-right party leaders form a united bloc within the government against the emerging ceasefire deal in Gaza being pushed by the Trump administration.”

“Ben Gvir’s Otzma Yehudit party quit the government in January to protest a previous ceasefire/hostage release deal, only returning in March with the resumption of hostilities. Smotrich kept his Religious Zionism party in the coalition for the ceasefire but conditioned his staying in on the resumption of fighting against Hamas rather than using the truce period to negotiate a final end to the war, as was originally stated in the agreement. The ceasefire collapsed in March when Israel renewed attacks on Hamas while accusing the terror group of violating the terms. Dozens of hostages, dead and alive, were released during the ceasefire”

www.timesofisrael.com/ben-gvir-said-seeking-partnership-with-smotrich-to-thwart-emerging-hostage-deal/

Totally agree an about the “but Hamas” It’s very naive at best. .

I sympathise with the “but Hamas” response. It’s hard to accept what Israel has done. I think people adopt a your either with us or against us mentality.

You mistake me.
I know Smotrich and Ben Givr are racist extremists. Perhaps they'd be as bad as Hamas if they weren't held in check by the democratic structure around them. Theyre clearly abhorrent.
And I agree that BN is at least partly prolonging this war to save his political skin.
That doesn't absolve Hamas of responsibility for this conflict. They still made it inevitable with Oct 7.
You say it was resistance. You say it was because of the oppression. I say the oppression has become necessary because of the constant violence. We go back and forth. Both have commited atrocities. But this set started when Hamas opened the Pandoras box of war on 7 October. We can go tit for tat all the way back to 1948 when Israel was born and Palestinians and other Arabs immediately declared war. Thats where it started.
There's always 2 parties who can end a war. There's 2 parties that can end this one too.
Israel is going to keep going until Hamas is gone. They've sound reasons for doing so, even given the above. Hamas has promised 7 October over and over again. They've simply got to go.
We all see the news you know. We're not actual psychopaths who want children to die. Some of the rhetoric on this thread is absolutely unhinged. We all want the war to end.
All my posts have been pointing out Hamas can end it. Do you all honestly think the war can go on forever? It's going to end, so why not Hamas just end it now? Why all the needless death?
You lot really need to ask yourselves why you hate Israel more than you hate Hamas.

👏

We can go tit for tat all the way back to 1948 when Israel was born and Palestinians and other Arabs immediately declared war. Thats where it started.

Finally some acceptance that 1948 happened. Saying the Palestinians and Arabs immediately declared war…well why?? Because their land and homes were taken, because they were expelled, removed because they were forced to live under occupation for decades that doesn’t bring about sentiments of peace and love. It brings a sense of injustice and resentment.

How are people supposed to act when an occupation lands on them? Members of the French resistance were/are hailed as heroes. The Nazis certainly saw them as terrorists. The Nazis frequently used collective punishment as method of punishing whole villages, why is it being used now when it is against all Geneva conventions?

You seriously cannot turn up at any random location and say God gave me this land and I want it so now leave.

You lot really need to ask yourselves why you hate Israel more than you hate Hamas.

Because Israel has been oppressing Palestinians since 1948.

So you admit that you do hate Israel more than you hate Hamas?

Not often people admit that but sometimes it seems obvious.

I have not posted about Hamas and their actions being resistance on 7/10. Nothing condones that. Just as much nothing - in many people’s opinions - condones what the IDF has done to Gaza and Palestinians. You can talk about context of both - but ultimately- both sides are responsible for their own decisions and actions.

“I know Smotrich and Ben Givr are racist extremists. Perhaps they'd be as bad as Hamas if they weren't held in check by the democratic structure around them. ”

I am not sure they have been held in check- in fact it looks like Netanyahu has been beholden to them as he has not wanted the coalition to break down.

Israel’s own military leaders said some time ago that there was no continued benefit in continuing the conflict.

It’s one thing to be moved by the knowledge that too many children have died, and another to say well that what happens in war. It’s the latter attitude that bristles as many of us feel the actions of Israel have been disproportionate.

Love the way you say “you lot”
As if we’re one homogeneous blob. Lots of people feel Israel has gone too far - can see it in umpteen international polls.

Hamas are fucking bastards and I'd be happy if each and every one of their number exploded spontaneously.

Nevertheless Netanyahu is orchestrating a genocide and this is unacceptable in any context. Famine should not be a tool of war. Civilians... Be they doctors, children, babies should be spared not targeted in conflict. Whether they are Palestinian or Israeli. Whether the perpetrators are Palestinian or Israeli.

Can't believe the defenders of Israel in this. A terrorist attack does not give any country carte blanche to break international law and murder innocents. If it served a purpose in the conflict - would you condone Netanyahu murdering Israeli children and infants? Starving the Israeli population to death? Palestinian children are no less innocent and no less deserving.

Absolutely. The hostages are forgotten. If it was my kids or grandkids being held for nearly two years I would want my government to so whatever it takes to free them .

Israel created 1948.
Hamas (according to google) created 1988.

Ignoring everything else Israel has been oppressing Palestinians since 1948.

They have only been released through negotiations not during periods of conflict. Israeli military leaders have said no benefit of continued conflict.

Respectfully this thread wasn’t about hostages.

Since you’ve brought them into it, you are saying it was ok to kill Dr Marwan and his children even though no hostages were found as a result?

That doesn’t answer my question about do you hate Israel more than Hamas?

Looks like it’s a popularity contest to some people 🫣

Far from hating Israel this is about recognising that an advanced nation which upholds human rights and democratic ideals within its own borders can and should do better than this. Should not slaughter children. Should not entrench hatred. Netanyahu is condemning Israelis to endless war. Without hope on both sides, without justice how can there be reconciliation and peace. Even after Hamas is defeated how is this the way to create peace?

It is not appropriate to respond to acts of evil, with acts of evil. There is no difference between an Israeli innocent and a Palestinian innocent in terms of moral worth. No legitimate objective has been met in targeting doctors and hospitals - these actions speak to an objective of genocide based on the perception that (all) Palestinians are subhuman.

If you come to my house and murder one of my children I might want to murder you and who could blame me. But I won't come to your house and murder one of your children. Because they are children and that would make me a monster. Let alone burn down your street with all of your children, your wife, your dog, your neighbours and their kids too...

I’ll take your silence as affirmation @TakeMe2Insanity

'You seriously cannot turn up at any random location and say God gave me this land and I want it so now leave.'

Thats not what happened tho. I think its a common misconception. No one was initially expected to leave their houses. The intention was to give the Jewish nation a homeland, which I hope no one here technically objects to. Jew and Arab had lived alongside each other in varying degrees of peace and bloodshed for hundreds of years. Instead of 2 mixed nations with Arabs continuing to live alongside Jews and vv, the Arabs decided there was to be no space for Jews at all, and started a war of annihilation against the brand new nation of Israel ( still reeling from the Holocaust- can you even imagine ). If they had just accepted the borders then there would now be a mix of people with no one forced to leave their homes. But instead war was declared and Israel forced to defend herself. Violence ensued. Some people left their homes under threat of violence. Some people left of their own choice ( on both sides ) The Arabs who stayed in their homes are still in Israel now. How many Jewish people were also expelled from other nations all around the Middle East?

The birth of a new nation is always messy. A war always includes atrocities. A war by necessity opens the door to the absolute worst in us. Its not condoning such atrocities. Its just knowing the human psyche. The war should not have been started back in 1948. The local Arabs, accompanied by other Arab League nations started that war to remove every last Jew from Islamic land. What other choice did Israel have other than to fight back?

Theres an interesting mirror with the institutional racism in the US here.

You either accept black people are more likely to commit crime because of their innate nature, or you think to yourself, hang on that can't be right, you look into it and you discover more about the institutions they've grown up through.

You either actually believe Israel is a uniquely bad lot of humans or you look deeper into the reasons why they do what they do and try to understand the history.

We all see the news you know. We're not actual psychopaths who want children to die. Some of the rhetoric on this thread is absolutely unhinged. We all want the war to end.

Unfortunately the we in the last sentence voted for the racists who want Hamas gone, but who also conflate being Palestinian/Gazan with being part of Hamas. As we are told, Israel is a democracy- the people even you can see are ‘problematic’ are your elected representatives and the face of Israel the world over. If they are not you, why are they in power, commanding the actions of the IDF?

@dairydebris

”You either actually believe Israel is a uniquely bad lot of humans or you look deeper into the reasons why they do what they do and try to understand the history.”

No one thinks that Israel is full of uniquely bad lot of humans, but history tells us that people can do uniquely bad things.

Because Israel is as vulnerable to shit politicians as every other nation- Hungary, the US, India, possibly us next with Reform. I don't disagree with anything you say.
I hope that Israelis in Israel will vote moderate next time round. While also feeling glad they have the option to vote unlike Gazans who get their legs broken or worse for opposing Hamas.
The longer this war goes on, the more likely BN stays in government, another good reason for it to end asap 🙏.

Up to the Israelis tho.

I agree and hope they vote in a more moderate government next time too. It seems highly likely they will.

😂

Hamas gave Netanyahu a convenient excuse to commit the atrocities he’s been so despratae to do. It’s utterly naive to think that he will just stop the ethnic cleansing if any remaining hostages were released.