uS Israeli staff shootings

[mids2019]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cy9vr10n732t

Not really surprised but shows the level of New hatred that IS spreading in the US. Scary times and hope nothing like that happens here.

Hezbollah and Iranian scientists arent hiding out in tunnels in gaza. There is so much written about the challenges of fighting hamas in gaza, you could really do with reading up.

We have read up on it. But you missed my point - what is the worth of a Palestinian life that 10s of people are still dying to kill remaining Hamas soldiers when they have already been immensely weakened, when the IDF military leaders have already said that there is no military advantage to carrying on fighting.

How is it proportionate to continue to kill so many innocent Palestinians?

We have to reflect that the greatest evils in history have been committed by dictatorships but Israel is a democracy. We have so much more in common in terms of governance with Israel than the rest of the middle east. The problem with stating Israeli is evil is that it is simply wrong and again leads to promoting the anti semitism we see in these shootings by extending the 'evil' label from the Israeli leadership, to the people who democratically elected the government, and ultimately to the people who founded the country i.e. jews. Incorrect language to my mind is a spur to those anti semites who wish to legitimise their actions as they are acting against 'evil'.

Also the evil label falls into the IDF with this fallacious argument and remember the videos of sobbing wounded female members of the IDF cowering under a desk while a Hamas terrorist callously takes those lives with a machine gun. I do though these things tend to be forgotten by the new 'virtuous'.

And your post clearly demonstrates that all the suffering, deaths and herding of the Palestinians since 7th Oct 2023 is down to Hamas. They instigated it. What was their end goal? What were they trying to achieve? Why did they think what they did would help the Palestinians? It was, and still is, a power trip solely for their own benefit. The reason why other countries have been behind Israel is due to the hostage situation. If mamas let the remaing hostages go then the world leaders would likely put more pressure on Israel to stop the war.

I can’t see why a democracy can’t elect a government capable of evil. History has also shown us that - repeatedly - particularly in context of colonialism when the victims are dehumanised and othered.

The decision making in Israel seems to be skewed for a reasons- a need to hold onto power, a coalition is held together by extremists, the country itself has experienced terrorism on a mass scale - can you not see how it could create conditions were a democratically elected government succumbs to the acts of cruelty itself. It’s happening both in Gaza and WB.

I understood your concerns but no country should be immune to rightful criticism.

Unfortunately - some of Israel’s citizens do hold extreme views, which support ethnic cleansing of Gaza- for example - but again - this is understandable. There are also still truly liberal Israelis and their voices need to be heard more.

This is a beautiful tribue to Sarah:

https://x.com/EfratHochstet/status/1926311605337235527

Thank you for posting - she seems to have been a remarkable person. Absolutely devastating.

And every day of suffering and permits,restrictions, demolitions , food and water shortages unlawful detentions and murders before October 7th is down to Israel and the IDF

Anyone who thinks October 7th happened in a vacuum is woefully uninformed of the situation. Yes it was a horrible act of violence that can never be condoned.

And the hostages are being used as a sympathy bargaining chip which is why the ceasefire was broken but thankfully even that is starting to wear off.

The world is a poorer place without her.

@mids2019 "We have to reflect that the greatest evils in history have been committed by dictatorships but Israel is a democracy."
Oi, DEMOCRACY! That old excuse.
Democracies are not that old yet, so yeah, all ancient and medieval atrocities weren't commited by them. But you should give enough credit to democracies too. Chemical weapons in Korean war. Vietnam war, Iraq war, and the only time nukes were used in war - that too was by a democracy!
Let's now add to the list the genocide of Palestinians, ethnic cleansing and starvation, tortures in prisons, and all sorts of other henious war crimes all commited by a democracy with full support of other democracies (shouldn't forget to credit them too). So yeah, a pretty stale excuse of a democracy.
If you still have questions - ask yourself when you last saw a foreign policy on a ballot?

@Martymcfly24 ”Anyone who thinks October 7th happened in a vacuum is woefully uninformed of the situation. Yes it was a horrible act of violence that can never be condoned.”

Sounds like you think it was justified though?

I'm not sure a single person on the thread is saying October 7th happened in a vacuum.

Nevertheless, it was a barbaric act and didn't target the government, the IDF or the Settlers but rather innocent people enjoying themselves at a music festival.

The scale of the retribution has been shocking. But it's true that it wouldn't be happening without the trigger of October 7th.

So you are unaware of how Hamas ran Gaza before 7 October, or how many terrorist attacks they perpetrated in Israel.

A child who has been a victim of abuse and sees abuse of others in the family, is more to be violent themselves. It does not excuse the violence, but it explains why that person may have become violent themselves. Not all victims of violence are themselves violent.
Not all Palestinians are violent.

So what was Rodriguez reason excuse for antisemitic murder?

No I don't think that.

Unlike many I don't believe mass violence against civilians is ever justified to achieve political aims.

I’m baffled that people think that the Hamas attack was unjust but the retaliation was just.

Both are wrong. Both are targeting innocent people.

At least @EasyTouch is honest, there is a genocide but people justify it as the the only answer.

There is no excuse for murder. Killing innocent people is wrong, it’s always wrong, it doesn’t matter who they are.

Did Israel have any involvement in the running of Gaza at all during the period?

I have read of lots of terrorist attacks by Hamas and other groups on Israeli citizens and condemn every single one. I am just finished reading Apeirogon part of which tells of the true story of the pain of an Israeli father who lost his daughter in one such bombing.

Israel left Gaza in 2005.

Don't know about the US but in my country murder requires intent - what was his intent when he bought a ticket to an evening for young Jewish professionals, took his gun along and fired 21 bullets at two people attending that event. How was his intent formed?

His intent was murder. That’s why we are calling it a murder. Nobody is trying to justify it because it is clearly wrong.

And how was it formed? His actions as reported were premeditated. What motivated him?

I have no idea. anti semitism? Anti Israeli sentiment. Why don’t you make your point.