uS Israeli staff shootings

[mids2019]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cy9vr10n732t

Not really surprised but shows the level of New hatred that IS spreading in the US. Scary times and hope nothing like that happens here.

Yes, sounds like there's a 'but'....

It doesn't.

I don't really need to but you're so demanding.
It's important to discover the source of his angst, how was he radicalised to murder strangers - unless you don't think murder is a radical action.

Online via social media hate posts? In person by his associations?

To say that there was no excuse for 7/10 is equally true as there was no excuse for the death of the couple.

Those supporting the rights of Palestinians cannot be held responsible for the murder of the couple and nor should it be used as a reason to stop talking about what is happening in Gaza.

Hamas were responsible for 7/10 and a lone murderer was responsible for the death of the poor couple.

We’ll have to see. Anti semitism is off the scale right now. It’s all over twitter. And it’s dangerous and wrong. And other extremism, of course. How have you been radicalised to make quips about paradise on posts about dead babies?

No problem with talking...until it turns into incitement.

What an interesting comment - taken out of context of course. What are you trying to achieve?

The Palestinians are suffering - do you want the world to ignore this?

Did you actually read the post you attached to?

I’m just pointing out that extremism and radicalism is dangerous.

Although you’ll have to less cryptic because I don’t understand what you think constitutes talking and what constitutes incitement.

Talking about Gaza is fine. Calling out Israel on their actions in Gaza is fine. Blaming all Jews for the actions of the Israeli government is dangerous and wrong.

Calling for the death of Jews = incitement, for instance.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-67631228

yes - we are in agreement with each other. Calling for the death of Jews sounds like incitement.

I have read your recent posts. What do you think I am missing?

Comprehension.

No @quantumbutterfly I believe I understand what you are saying but I don’t agree with it.

I'm saying support for Gaza shouldn't incite violence towards Jews & Israelis - what do you think I'm saying?

I understood that you are concerned that criticisms of Israel by those concerned by the situation in Gaza was a factor in the death of the couple. I didn’t think that means we should stop talking about what is happening in Gaza.

From your last post- maybe you are talking about more direct hate speech inciting violence? Which would be illegal.

I am not clear whether you think all speech criticising Israel incites violence?

Ultimately - the responsibility lies with those who commit the crimes - like Hamas in 7/10.

There are lots of examples of speech which is not “direct hate speech“ so difficult to prosecute but nevertheless contributes to the increase in anti semitism .
Righteous anger over the death of innocent Gazan children can spill over into something more sinister. We know from history that “group think” needs a scapegoat.

That’s probably sadly true @OpheliaWasntMad

But this the world we live in. Hatred against women, other forms of racist speech, transphobia etc. I am not sure it’s unique to the current situation in the ME?

Equally - to what extent is the anti-Palestinian propaganda within Israel contributing to the more extreme views enabling Netanyahu’s government?

I also think SM can do good by drawing attention to what is happening in Gaza. Would EU governments act in reviewing EU- Israel association if there was not awareness of what is currently happening? We know Netanyahu’s government let in the measly amount of aid due to the optics for its allies.

I'd like to think governments are more aware of the nuances of geopolitics than most students.

As world alliances shift we're always on the brink of wider repercussions and the governments job is hopefully to avoid conflict within and without.
Our government and our allies can't ignore the role Russia/Iran/China/North Korea are playing in the middle east.
Iran is playing with the big boys hoping to achieve it's aim wrt Israel and Jewish presence in the middle east - their leaders have been vocal and active. Many Arab countries are looking at how to protect their best interests on that stage and are wary of what might be exacted in return for their loyalty. Russia. & China have a reputation for ruthless empire building and the US might be the lesser evil if they assume they're smarter than Trump & his posse.

Equally - to what extent is the anti-Palestinian propaganda within Israel contributing to the more extreme views enabling Netanyahu’s government?

Anti Palestinian rhetoric is having an effect in the US too. A 6 year old Palestinian American boy was stabbed to death, his mother also stabbed. 3 students wearing keffiyehs and speaking Arabic were shot. Two Israelis were shot because the Jewish gunman thought they were Palestinian. A Palestinian American was stabbed near the University of Texas campus in a hate crime. A woman tried to drown a 3 year old Palestinian American girl after asking where they were from. The widespread dehumanising of Palestinians has certainly has an effect on people living in the West as well as Palestine. It's a very dangerous time to be Palestinian American.

Yet where are the calls to rout out anti-Palestinian voices and forces in the U.S….

The marches , the student protests, the boycotts etc are nearly all Pro Palestinian so I do think there is a large number who are calling out any anti Palestinian rhetoric.
Its been a much greater struggle ( on here at least ) to raise awareness of the increasing anti semitism without getting pushback/ denial/ deflection etc

All horrible examples of the way people are being radicalised to take more and more extreme positions - on both sides

I was thinking of what is happening at universities - the US government wanting to know who was involved in what march/ protest and the impact it already has had on those who supported Palestine.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/rumeysa-ozturk-tufts-university-ice-arrest-b2722397.html

I don’t think people on this board doubt the increased antisemitism, but perhaps we don’t always agree on what is antisemitism and what is justified criticism. The focus on Israel and Gaza has in itself been called antisemitic.