uS Israeli staff shootings

[mids2019]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cy9vr10n732t

Not really surprised but shows the level of New hatred that IS spreading in the US. Scary times and hope nothing like that happens here.

This woman was posted on another thread. I thought her words here on antisemitism were really interesting. Both how governments are using accusations of antisemitism to shut down criticism of the conflict. And she also criticises the left for not getting involved in the fight against antisemitism.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DGGJYodyzvM/?igsh=b3hibDJrMGs4em5k

But this thread is specifically about two young people working for the US Israeli embassy and murdered by someone radicalised by violent anti Israeli sentiment .
We all agree the murder is abhorrent.
We all agree people must be allowed to criticise the Israeli government.

I don’t think the murderer was radicalised by reasoned and valid criticism of Netanyahu and his government . I think he was more likely responding to online content designed to equate Israel and all Israelis with all things evil .

I absolutely agree with you and her / the left should be calling out real anti semitism more.

One of the comments under the instagram post says “In Australia anti semitism is on the rise. But until Jewish communities actively stand against what Israel is doing it’s hardly surprising people are frustrated at the lack of backbone to criticise Israel”
This is the sort of rhetoric that’s dangerous.

I wasn’t talking about the comments. I was pointing out I agree with her. Nobody is really fighting against anti semitism right now. It’s being used to shut down criticism of Israel and the left haven’t taken it up as a cause.

I do not agree with that comment. Jewish people don’t have any more responsibility than anyone else to criticise Israel. We all have a collective responsibility to do so but we shouldn’t have a higher expectation of anyone based on their religion.

Jewish people don’t have any particular responsibility to criticise Israel and Muslim people don’t have any particular responsibility to criticise October 7th.

Yes apologies - I know you weren’t talking about the comments. I was just talking about the dangers of those kind of sentiments.

I don't what media you read or where you live but its ridiculous to say noone is fighting against antisemitism. There are loads of incredible Jewish people and organisations, and their allies fighting antisemitism. With precious little support in wider society and certainly little support on the left.

A very small group on MN, I grant you.

Well yes I am sure, I exaggerated. I’m thinking of places like the ADL that has prioritised fighting criticism of Israeli policy.

What are you trying to achieve with such a statement? Who is doing the weaponising here?

Look up the Livingstone formulation.

The Livingstone Formulation sounds like another way of shutting down legitimate criticism of Israel to me.

I don’t think we are going to agree on this.

If you think all people fighting antisemitism are just trying to shut down criticism of Israel, as per your previous post, and you deny the Livingstone formulation, coined by a man who has spent his life studying antisemitism, then no, we will not agree.

its up to others to take a view on how authoritative your view is if you havent taken the trouble to find out about those fightimg antisemitism who dont fit your image of just people trying to shut down criticism of Israel.

This attack - which was targeting Jews, it was pure coincidence that the victims happened to be working at the embassy - literally will have the opposite effect that you would think Pro-Palesitinian supporters are trying to acheive.

Presumably they want either a 2 state solution or what hamas want - all Jews to leave Israel and give the whole country to the Palestianians.

Murdering Jews in the USA or other countries just makes us feel unsafe. I know many Jews who have made Aliya (moved to Israel) since October 7th, (and before) exactly because of this sort of attack.

Did you not see the amount of hale and hearty Hamas at each release of Israeli captives a few weeks back?

Hamas only asks for ceasefires in order to recalibrate and sort out new leadership by fair means or foul (internally).

Hence why the rest of the kidnapped dead or alive have not been returned.
Hamas itself is not a monolith and different higher ups have differing personal motives behind belonging to Hamas, most of them monetary gain. Just like any bunch of gangsters.

Any ceasefire of any sort of permanence will curtail certain nefarious money making schemes that can only manifest through lack and force riped inflation because of.
Behind the scenes, anybody who is too pious about the emancipation of Palestinians will be neutralized or nullified after their motives have been proved not corrupt enough.

If you think that Israel is not getting some intel on certain people from certain Hamas associates about certain Hamas operatives and actions, the neutralizing of and the results thereof horrify those who see the images.......you will need to upgrade from willingly naive mode.
Israel ignoring alleged intel about 10/5 had lots of Pro Palestinians blaming Israel the Hamas/complicit of Gaza pogrom that they inflicted in Israel.

There are levels to this. This is why I cannot take the majority of the three levels at most prism that too many "Pro Palestinian " choose to see this current crisis through.
I give a lot of credit to Hamas for exploiting this gap in thinking.
Never did I ever imagine seeing Hezbollah being seen through romantic "poor them" eyes as a Gen X person who grew up seeing Beirut bombed to shit by Hezbollah on the tv.
Israel is so great, she changed the fucking paradigm!
And that is how bitchy I will allow myself to be on this fine Bank holiday as to my thoughts as to why even Hezbollah has gained good PR in the UK in 2025.........

Did you not see the amount of hale and hearty Hamas at each release of Israeli captives a few weeks back?

I took that to be a rather pathetic show of bravura.

Doesn’t make them any less dangerous unfortunately

This reads very bizarrely

« Behind the scenes, anybody who is too pious about the emancipation of Palestinians will be neutralized or nullified after their motives have been proved not corrupt enough.«

Are you suggesting people are being killed by Hamas for wanting freedom for Palestinians if their motives are sincere? You have no proof for this.

Hamas behaved appallingly when the hostages, but Israeli leaders have questioned the need to continue fighting and some have suggested that this is now about political survival for Netanyahu. For example…

https://www.timesofisrael.com/after-firing-gallant-tells-hostage-families-netanyahu-needlessly-keeping-troops-in-gaza/amp/

Maybe Netanyahu can ask Qatar to stop funding Hamas? He seems to have some links with them 🤨

Please don’t hold back your « bitchiness « on my account 🫣

I wouldn’t defend the attack either way @Jewishbookworm . Whether they were targeted for working in the embassy or whether they were targeted because they were Jewish. (And I think it is because they were Jewish) This was a cold blooded murder, there does not seem to be a pro Palestinian group behind it either. It was not done to progress the “cause”

The murderer shouted Free Palestine. Of course it was done to progress the cause.

“It was not done to progress the “cause”
. I’m not sure what you mean?

What make you believe that the perpetrator didn’t think he was progressing “the cause” in the same way the perpetrators of October 7 were?