uS Israeli staff shootings

[mids2019]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cy9vr10n732t

Not really surprised but shows the level of New hatred that IS spreading in the US. Scary times and hope nothing like that happens here.

I trust that @Martymcfly24 can understand what is antisemitic about this post.

I'm not shrugging my shoulders at anything. And if anything is revealing then it is you saying that it makea your 'blood run cold' that a poster doesn't know someting but it's just 'wrong' that Israel is withholding aid.

What a silly thing to say. Can you be more wrong than 'completely'? I dont think so.

It taps into the centuries old blood libel. Please don't pretend you can't see that.
Don't agree it was a blood libel. Netanyahu has said himself he is starving civilians. We are talking about the Israeli government and their extremist ministers here and their actions in Gaza where they are blocking humanitarian aid which are starving a population, calculated collective punishment which is a war crime. The statement of those at risk of imminent death was corrected and clarified but that doesn't change the actions of the Israeli government causing starvation, malnutrition and death due to lack of access to medical intervention.

The obsession with babies
Yes the most innocent and most vulnerable, shock horror on a mumsnet site we care about them.

This thread is about the shocking murder of two innocent israelis by an extremist in the States, there are other threads to discuss the intentional starvation of people in Gaza

Yes and we are talking about the antisemitic context in which those murders occurred. Only an antisemite murders people who are Jewish or Israeli because of the actions of the Israeli government. Anyone who genuinely cares about the conflict takes tne trouble to understand it.

So has "blood libel", according to this thread.

Anyone who genuinely cares about the conflict takes tne trouble to understand it.

Most do understand that and the majority of people recognise and understand the context that they were murdered.
That is not the same as your blood libel claim against netanyahu which is what I was responding to and which has unfortunately led to a derail.

Has that been chanted by crowds marching every weekend in cities? Sprayed on walls, including that of schools and places of worship?.

I didn't claim Netanyahu had used a bloodlibel. Martymcfly, a very regular poster literally admitted to not knowing what a blood libel was and still claims not to understand it when its one of the oldest antisemitic tropes. Its very clear that a lot of people are very unwilling to connect the wider antisemitic context with these murders.

Martymcfly, a very regular poster literally admitted to not knowing what a blood libel
That came after my initial comment to you.

My initial comment to you was in response to your comment below. You were the first to suggest the factual error amounted to a blood libel. Which I didn't and still don't agree that it was.
she was pointing out a disgraceful factual error, spread by the media without fact checking, which amounted to a blood libel.

It has been very revealing because none of what you said answered my question. You say it is not your job to educate me well if you can't educate me can you answer me why are you using such a specific term to equate with actions that are nothing to do with the term?

I take great offense in " your blood running cold " that I have no curiosity when I am curious enough to have literally asked you was it you who have changed the definition or a widely held belief and you refuse to answer me.

I haven't a clue, i haven't been everywhere all at once.

Its been used enough on this thread though, as another way to shut down any criticism of Israel. Much like "antisemitism". Its getting thrown about as a way to silence any discussion. Even when a poster genuinely asks for a clearer understanding of the term "blood libel" they are told "I'm not here to educate you, go read a book"...

People who are horrified at the suffering in Gaza are getting tired of being told how antisemitic they are, how they are referencing a blood libel etcetc....its getting tiresome and it dilutes real antisemitism around the world, which we seen in this terrible shooting in the US.

It will be interesting to see how the shooter in this case was radicalized and see what online material lead the perpetrator to commit this egregious murder.

The trial will reveal a lot about current anti semitism that has arisen specifically about this conflict and show the world the devastating effects of not addressing anti semitism or not calling it out because of 'hey but Gaza'

"I haven't been everywhere all at once".
Neither have I, but I watch the news and inform myself.
Using a phrase on this thread is really not the same. There is no comparison between the twain.
If you want to challenge the blood libel issue, do so, but don't claim it's as widely used as Free Palestine.
I've never seen people with that on flags, bags, bracelets and badges.

I said on this thread @ScarlettOYara , i said "on this thread". I didn't say its a term used everywhere.
And no one seems to be able to explain what it meant, in the context it was used.

As i said, its another way of closing a discussion.

I havent refused to answer you, I have refused to do your research for you. If you had done your research you would know that antisemitic tropes are repurposed over time. Very few medieval ideas about anything have survived completely intact as they were to the present day, they are reshaped in modern contexts. Noone is literally saying the Israelis are taking the blood of babies and using it in rituals (I mean someine somewhere might be but its not particularly relevant). I used the phrase 'tapped into'. That is how this ideas work and have power.

Of course I have not 'changed the definition', it wouldn't be a useful trope if only I had the power to define it as I have no influence in wider society.

Fair enough.

I'll do my own research.

I'll investigate into why thinking it's a bad thing Israel withholding aid to a starving population and using airstrikes to kill children is "tapping into" an antisemitic trope of Jewish people taking the blood of babies for rituals.

This is very disingenuous. Noone is shutting down discussion. We are asking for discussion that is fact based and that is not rooted in antisemitic tropes. It would in fact be an opening up of discussion without the need to be derailed by going off on tangents. In a group of people who claim to care about the middle east I would expect to be able to refer to blood libel, in the knowledge that people have that level of basic knowledge.

Explained here: https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/blood-libel

i have kept an eye on the Isreal Palestine problem since my school days and never come across blood libel. Admittedly I was more concerned about people being killed in the here and now.

trying to shut people up talking about children being killed is horrific - the Israeli government actions are judged by todays standards and found wrong and they can’t justify that because of what someone else said or did centuries ago.

its the killing today that is turning people against Jews today - not the long forgotten tales

Fhat the actions of the Israeli government are stirring antisemitism I do agree , and it’s rising as the horror and disgust grows

but to try and dismiss and hide and obscure the actions of the government because of that , rather than challenge the government actions is just wrong

Thank you for that . That's actually the website I looked at earlier. It's a very interesting read and shows the horror and danger of antisemitism over the centuries.

I have read it all now but I still can't see the link as it refers explicitly to those accusations of ritual sacrifices only.

"it is the killing today that is turning people against Jews today"
Can't you see @andtheworldrollson that's problematic?
Why should Jews in Leeds or New York or wherever be blamed for something beyond their control, by another nation for which they have no responsibility?.

There's so much vitriol online, as @mids2019 says, his trial could expose what influenced this man.
I've seen a lot of exaggerated accusations whilst minimising any actions from hamas. That's troubling and speaks to the influences on them.
Mobbing Yuval Raphael at Eurovision I will put in the same frame as screaming at autistic kids having Macdonald's, and 'Lord of the Flies'. If I see a mob baying for blood my first urge is not to join it.
There's a joke that 50 % of people are below average intellect, we're seeing standard deviation in action when some people join a mob and others manipulate it.
My ideal - hostages return, 2 states peacefully co-existing under moderate leadership, hamas/hezbollah/houthis/Iranian theocracy sidelined & diminished. It's too much of a mouthful to shout & not exciting or soundbitey enough for a placard.

Can you hear yourself? Only an antisemite turns against Jewish people be ause of the actions of the Israeli government.

Yeah sorry, reminds me of the poster who takes her kids on demos and talks to pro-pal holocaust survivors to show them not all Israelis are evil.
We all have blind spots, stream of consciousness exposes them.
I loved it when Tim Minchin said 'opinions are like arseholes, everyone has them, but unlike arseholes you should regularly examine yours.' that will make some people familiar with my posts implode I'm sure.